Branded & Built to Last: The Real Economics of Branded Living with Accor One Living

In the third of our ‘Dubai Special’ episodes of Bricks & More, Adrian Strittmatter is joined by Dan Von Barloewen and Lindsay McGinn from Accor One Living to unpack one of the fastest-growing – and most misunderstood – frontiers in global real estate: branded residences and mixed-use living.

The episode challenges the idea that value is created at the point of sale. Instead, it reframes branded residences as living ecosystems where value is generated through day-to-day operations, brand authenticity, resale performance, and lifelong relationships with residents.

Key talking points:

🏙️ Why branded residences succeed (or fail) based on service, governance, and long-term commitment — not branding alone

🏷️ The difference between a “labelled residence” and a truly hospitality-led branded home

📊 How demographic insight, psychographics, and local culture determine the right brand for the right place

🔁 Why resale premiums, homeowner satisfaction, and operational discipline matter more than launch-day price uplifts

🌍 How wellness, longevity, community programming, and global brand ecosystems are reshaping residential demand

🚀 What’s next: build-to-rent, private members’ clubs, yachts, and new models of lifestyle-driven investment

If you think branded residences are just about luxury positioning – or if you’re curious how hospitality thinking can future-proof real estate assets – this episode offers a masterclass in how value is really generated, protected, and sustained.

Lindsay’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsay-mcginn-3859081/ 

Daniel’s Linkedin: https://ae.linkedin.com/in/daniel-von-barloewen-58b08024 

Accor One Living: https://accor-residences.com/ 

Adrian’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianstrittmatter 

Saentys: https://saentys.com/ 

Transcript

0:52

Today we are zooming in on one of the most dynamic and fastest growing frontiers of global real estate branded residences and mixed use living. As investors and developers always look for new ways to future-proof their assets, branded living has emerged as a model that combines real estate, hospitality, and lifestyle, to create both an emotional connection with the audiences and enduring value. But what really does drive performance in these spaces? And how do you go beyond logos, marketing and luxury to deliver communities that are profitable, resilient, and deeply, deeply human? In this episode of Bricks More, we explore how the world's most iconic hospitality brands are shaping the next generation of real estate value. And why this model is quickly becoming one of the most investible and scalable strategies of the decade. To guide us through. I'm joined by two global experts from Accor One Living, the 360 degree platform dedicated to branded residential and mixed use projects. Dan Von Barloewen, senior Vice President of Global Mixed Use Development brings over 20 years of experience across 40 different countries, advising on development strategy, branded residence operations, and value creation. A former Army officer turned real estate leader, daniel combines discipline with creativity to shape high performing projects worldwide. Lindsay McGinn Brand Advisory Lead has spent her career at the intersection of luxury hospitality, real estate, and branding. From Four Seasons to Rosewood to Accor, she's built global platforms that help developers craft branded living concepts that truly resonate with buyers. Together they reveal how Accor One Living is transforming real estate into lifestyle ecosystems and why blending brand, service and experience is the ultimate recipe for long-term value generation. So let's dive straight in.

Adrian Strittmatter: 2:53

Dan Lindsay, thanks ever so much for coming on the podcast. It's an honor to have you as part of this, Dubai special. Pleasure to be here. Thank you. Thanks very much, ADiriyahn. ADiriyahn. Excellent. So let's kick off with a personal question, Dan, if you don't mind. You've, we are saying in the intro, you've worked across 40 different countries. Bringing advisory and real estate at a global level, what drew you to, to this career path? For me, ADiriyahn, it was, when I started, I was quite fortunate, start around similar time as the branded residential business. Mm-hmm. Was really kicking off internationally. So I got to see, you know, I used to have one project in 10. Which, when I was on the advisory side, which included a residential component to it, and then it became two in 10, three in 10, and pretty soon it became the majority of the work. and obviously the projects that were in the Americas majority were branded. The ones in Asia, a greater number in Europe and the Middle East was a lot more nascent. So the, it was really fascinating getting to see how you can bring in. All the aspects of creating a very successful product from the residential perspective. Mm-hmm. In its own right, in terms of understanding the bio demographics and psychographics mm-hmm. Et cetera, and blending the hospitality component into that. So I've always been passionate about hospitality, and so the ability of really bringing together two passions on a personal basis was what really drove me into the business. Perfect. And Lindsay, you've obviously developed a lot of branded platforms. We mentioned, again, in the intro sort of some of the brands that you worked for. how has. How's that career path happened? How do you land where you currently are standing? that is a big question. look, it's exciting to have been part of this business for so long. I got my start in 2005, so we're talking almost 20 years. Mm-hmm. and as you probably covered, it's been from different perspectives. Mm-hmm. The developer, the agency, the creative agency, and the brands, over the past decade, certainly. Having seen, as Daniel mentioned, getting involved when this was really kicking off. people talk about this being a trend or something that is new, but it isn't right. It's been around for God, four seasons, been doing it for. 30, 40, 50 years. Whereas as everyone's jumping on the bandwagon now. But I think seeing how this has, really become mainstream mm-hmm. And something that, we, we've built a dedicated team around it. it's an exciting time to be in this industry and, getting the profile that this proposition, this product really deserves. And why do you think there's been that positive evolution? Of this specific sort of asset class or way of looking at residential real estate. I think there's two ways, right? There's the commercial side of it. Mm-hmm. Which I think goes without saying, it costs a lot of money to build hotels. Yeah. Especially five star luxury hotels nowadays. And the residential component makes that a lot more economically interesting. But I think really lifestyle choices, More so in the consumer sentiment and desire for a lifestyle that is highly serviced, that's elevated, then that opens up, especially with companies like

Dan & Lindsey: 5:54

Accor

Adrian Strittmatter: 5:54

opens up an entire world to them, not just one brand. And it's that notion of a highly personalized, curated lifestyle where everything you have on property in terms of the service is exactly where you would expect if you were staying in a luxury hotel. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, that goes beyond just the property where you live. You are part of an ecosystem of VIPs across the entire global network within that operator. And it's why you see so many cases, all of us operators, we have a very significant proportion of buyers who own more than one branded residence under one of our brands. And if you extended that to say, do they own another, at least one under two or more of our brands, that percentage would be even higher. And if you then said, do they own, someone who owns a Fairmont or a Raffles, do they own a Four Seasons? Do they own a Rosewood? Very probably. Yes. And inherently, when you think about why it's grown, it's, there's been such a commoditization of the term luxury. Mm-hmm. Every developer now is sending their project as uncompromised luxury, the latest thing. And then, the fifth time you go to the bathroom, the door handle comes off in your hand. the, so how, what really is luxury? Luxury isn't about the quality of the build material. that's one thing in a sense, and that's the easy part. Mm-hmm. Luxury is about the every single aspect of the design. Mm-hmm. The way the design, aesthetics, will resonate to you as an individual. It's about it's sustainability criteria of the properties, which meets what people are now looking for in terms of their own way of life. It's about the service offering and how you can feel as an individual, as a family. Mm-hmm. In a particular property. and I also think it's not just on day one, right? Yeah. It's day after day. Yeah. You have to deliver what you said. it's that ongoing commitment. And I think in our space with the hospitality brand, certainly, right? It's not just a label on a building. It is, a whole a whole proposition and a whole commitment for the long term, right? We manage the HOA, we have a vested interest in these homeowners and their families and the longevity of, of the. Product itself and their experience within it. And there's one thing that I find super interesting when we look at buyer's profile and when you think about let's call it the branded residential space or branded living space is quite, I would say people have been doing it for quite few years, but getting that much interest is quite young. It's still quite new in that sense. Your purchasers or people who buy into that how, how large is the sort of the demographic in terms of age? You would have to for a young person or middle aged person, I dunno what the right terms now, gen Z, whatever, like you would have to do you have to convince them in different way? Or is the proposition, how does it resonate with different generations? that comes down to really sort of also the brand. It's on the market. The market. Market and branch. Yeah. So you you. Understanding, and that's why the first part of any discussion we have with a developer is to say, have you commissioned a third party? Mm-hmm. to a consultant firm to really analyze the market and provide specific recommendations on buyer profile, psychographic demographic. Mm-hmm. Purchase motivation, how many weeks a year, if it's a rental program, are they likely to use the property? All of that informs. The decision on brand, because you could say, okay, it skews much more towards a younger buyer profile. Mm-hmm. Alright, fine. But does that mean it's a younger buyer profile that is more traditional? In which case, brands, like Movenpick, Swiss Hotel, Pullman resonate very well. Or it's a, these are buyers who are much more lifestyle driven, in which case brands like MonDiriyahn, Hyde, Mama Shelter. If you look for example, to come to your question by the range, you take a brand like Mama Shelter. Where we'll have naturally a greater proportion of studios and one bedrooms. Mm-hmm. Those are very much, you go from buyers in their twenties, and upwards. Mm-hmm. And then if you go to a brand like Raffles, you and Fairmont, you are going to also have buyers who are into their sixties and seventies. Mm-hmm. So what we see is, families also where children have grown up as infants in our communities and they then have grown up and they are now inheriting the properties, keeping them may, they may even be choosing to sell a fair amount to go and buy a MonDiriyahn because they feel a greater affinity to a lifestyle brand. but when you look at sort of our projects in mature urban markets mm-hmm. Quite often you have buyers who are in their seventies and plus who are already looking at, how can I use this with as an alla card service outside care. So we're going into that stage where you're going beyond, the sort of retirements. Mm-hmm. You were not yet into assisted living, but you are taking that blend between. serviced in the sense of hospitality, services and service, and supported in the sense of, pre medicalized care. We saw that a lot. Just to throw back as an example, we saw that a lot. obviously you mentioned I used to work with Rosewood. Mm-hmm. the Carlisle very recognizable hotel in New York City. Most of the people that lived in that building were like over 80 and they lived there because, it was a way to live this, upper east side lifestyle where you could have all the services brought to you in your own. It's quite an interesting idea and you, it's happened organically, but I do think there's obviously that sort of, senior living concept is, is certainly something that is gonna come onto our radar, I think as well in the hospitality space. Massively with the demographic shifts as well. Yeah. It's something that's gonna come onto that. Yeah. And wellness is always, you know what, what draws buyers into hospitality branded residences. Other than the service offering, which we can talk about separately, you also have the extent of wellness, right? So wellness goes beyond just taking a gym spa. Yeah. A sauna and a steam room. As hotel operators, we have a huge amount that we do On the wellness side, we partner with operators. Mm-hmm. we have a huge amount of advanced techniques and so buyers are looking to see now what can we bring to that? And that's a la carte service. Those are, those can be specific activation events where we will bring in therapists and so forth who have a lot of expertise in particular domains. And so when you take that to the next level of curating the dedicated residential amenities that we're going to have, mm-hmm. If we are looking at a project in a market which is gonna be primarily primary home users or investors doing long-term tendencies, you might very well there. if it's a product that is a lifestyle product. You would have a podcast studio like the one we're in right now. Yeah. If we're doing something which is more classic, you would then potentially even go into having some amenities where you could bring in therapists, physiotherapists, doctors, et cetera, so that people can have all of the comfort and ability of having care without needing to leave their home. And so that's really interesting.'cause I think that brings us really nicely to sort of

Dan & Lindsey: 13:12

Accor

Adrian Strittmatter: 13:13

one living and, the platform it represents. And we've talked about obviously the different sort of age of the audiences, the different motivations behind the brand. How would you, if you were to give me an elevator pitch, how would you best describe maybe each of you individually,

Dan & Lindsey: 13:29

Accor

Adrian Strittmatter: 13:29

one living? Like what is it and how, what makes it different? Lindsay first? Look, I think what's interesting about how we are set up is we are a center of excellence, how we operate. we have combined with all of us on the team, we've got decades and decades of experience in this space. and I think we're a nimble team. We're quite uniquely positioned to really support our development partners across different brands, within Accor but certainly stand on our own right as well in terms of how we can really commit as a powerhouse in terms of the residential expertise that Accor brings. Not just the 20 some years that Fairmont's had residences, but all the experience that we bring, behind that. I would just add it's, in a sense, it's a platform that has brought together the relevant domain experts. So across developments mm-hmm. All the programming I was talking about, marketing and supporting our development partners through every single stage of their sales process. From the initial creation of all the marketing material all the way through the road shows, the PR into the sale of the last unit. And then the operations. And then, so for us, a really important part is we're not just about branding. Mm-hmm. We're not just about putting a name above the door. We are a commitment to our buyers who are ultimately our clients. If you think about our, people, it's very easy to think. But we make money from the license fees. Yes. License fees are an important part of the business, and our client for that is the developer. A very significant portion of the revenue on the residential business are recurring fees. Those recurring fees are residential homeowner management fees. Mm-hmm. So those residential management fees are paid by the Homeowners association. They are paid by each one of our eight and a half thousand existing residence owners and close to 30,000 residence owners in the pipeline. They are our clients, so as a platform, we are spending the majority of our time thinking about how can we make their life better? What kind of activation events can we be doing for them? What kind of programming? What kind of curated services, what kind of benefits across the network? So people who bought, for example, under a specific brand, it's the ultimate expression of loyalty in that brand. So what can we be doing for those property owners that goes beyond just the way we will manage their life for them at the property. We have upcoming hotel openings around the world constantly. These are people who viewing global brand partnerships. Exactly. So if you invite them, for example, to Hohos, because we have specific partnership events with Hohos and we happen to know that one of our residence owners, for example, in Boston or London is an avid tennis fan. Those are the kind of things that we would give our residents owners the opportunity to do.'cause nowadays, luxury isn't about what you have inside your own property. It's experiences. and especially I think it's having that long-term view of actually the journey starts. It doesn't end on signature and purchase. It starts at that point. Really. That's where, as you said, it's the ultimate, the ultimate sacrifice, but it's the ultimate proof of fidelity and love of a brand to be able to do that. And you want to be, to continue that relationship as well. In terms of the market, obviously it's, it's experiencing a huge growth. Do you see. Any limits to that? Do you see? Obviously there's geographic zones where it is, much more prevalent, much more potentially successful, I would say. do you see that growth being continued in the coming years? what do you see on the horizon? I'm waiting for underwater residences. Mm-hmm. that could be'cause I recently rewatched the Spy who loved me, but there's also a great restaurant in Norway, apparently in Oslo That's underwater. I think so. So yeah, underwater residences go underwater. Almost. Maldives. Yes, exactly. There's a changing climate. So yeah, it will become the big thing. But I think in terms of that, do you see that positivity surrounding maybe slightly differently in the sense, do you feel it's going in the same direction that human habits and expectations are going in terms of their way of engaging and purchasing property? I think, yeah, I think there's no doubt. for us, we are, we are focused on certain markets. We still have a lot of opportunity for growth in a lot of markets. Mm-hmm. And so even though you see markets like Dubai and Miami and certain urban centers that are quite saturated with every brand that you can imagine. Yeah. I think there's still a lot of opportunity. I think there's a ton of opportunity in Europe, I think in markets where you think. It could be cha it is more challenging because of historical landmark. Mm-hmm. And such, especially in Europe. But there are some really interesting projects on the horizon for sure. Some of which we can't talk about or you'd think, how could you ever do it there? But you there, you can, and developers are being, quite, quite creative in terms of what they're bringing to us. And we were just talking about one couple hours ago today. And, no, I think the possibilities are endless. Yeah, I think I'm waiting with a lot of excitement and we've done a few together as well about, content where, where I'm based, which is Europe, and seeing how, because the product clearly works, it's super attractive, but at the same time it's like, how do you spin it? How do you make it relevant? And I think that goes back to something that we always work together on, is that notion of brand authenticity. But before we jump into that, I think one question that I've got, and obviously the podcast is all about generating value for different audiences in different ways. How does

Dan & Lindsey: 19:00

Accor

Adrian Strittmatter: 19:00

one living or the branded residential space, how do you feel or how does that generate value for developers and investors? Why are they, in essence, why are they coming to you rather than doing it on their own? In that sense, there's an obvious answer, but why does that generate value for them in the long term? The first is you are coming to an operator that if you think about what we've been doing for one and a half centuries is two things. We have been managing and enhancing the value of real estate assets. Mm-hmm. For hotel owners assets, which go and go anywhere from the tens of millions to the hundreds of millions of dollars, in terms of real estate values. So day in, day out, we manage every single aspect of those, including property management. Yep. Secondly, we manage experiences for guests. For millions of guests that cross our threshold of our properties across, 48 brands every single day. And beyond that, the experiences that we are organizing for them across, programs like a Accor Live, limitless, our global loyalty program. So that's the sort of the first aspect of it. So the, we are very trusted. By our owner partners to do value enhancements and to be able to understand how can you bring brands to life to activate experiences. And so that knowhow of creating a brand, generating value, enhancing and maintaining values and marketing it at a global basis mm-hmm is what we can bring to a developer on the residential context. The second aspect from an investor perspective is the end user investor. Mm-hmm. And they're often a little bit not thought of enough. Yeah. When these kind of discussions are taking place where we're very much talking about, oh, the developer and the price premiums, but very much it's how do we look after these assets for the end users? And so beyond simply, talking about the services that we're offering. Mm-hmm. We manage the communities, including management of homeowner associations, service charge budgets, say at a corporate level. And in terms of what does

Dan & Lindsey: 21:08

Accor

Adrian Strittmatter: 21:09

one living do and why would you know an owner be so interested in what we do is because we don't sit there and let the properties and their respective directors of residences, just do whatever they want. There are specific brand standard audits, that cover the full spectrum of residential operations, property management, facility management, and governance. there are also, we will review every single service charge at all of our properties. We will review that in challenge the directors of residencies, compare and contrast with what other branded residential projects in the area and non-branded residential projects in the area are offering. We do annual homeowner engagement surveys across all of our residence owners every single year in which they can feedback about every single aspect of their experience, experience. Yeah. The way the Homeowner association is run the way they're recognized at the hotel, the way the global recognition owner benefits program is run, rental programs, and that forms part of the performance evaluation procedures and the extent to which we then will jump in at a corporate level mm-hmm to support. we will be there at some projects. We are present at every single annual general meeting of the association alongside the directors of residences. Others will be jumping in, but pretty much always for the very first one because people to come back to what we were saying earlier, they bought under that brand. Yeah. So that's for them is I bought a Fairmont, I bought a Raffles, a mama shelter, whatever it is, whichever brand it is, that's the brand they bought into and we want to make sure that they know that we're present from the very get go. Mm-hmm. And then maybe just a question for,'cause I think there'll be maybe potentially different answers, and maybe this is where one of the collaborations across the platform works really well. How do you choose, we talked about the demographic and the sort of the age or the life moment. How do you choose the right brand for the right location in terms of the way that you would select those? What is the selection criteria? From a product perspective, but then also maybe from a market perspective. To be honest, that usually happens before we, on the marketing side, engage as a usually in the development phase. So I will defer, to Daniel, but I do wanna add one more point to what Daniel was saying earlier about creating value. because I do think there's a great example of how One, our first residential project that we ever opened was, Fairmont and Acapulco. And that was 2001. Mm-hmm. So we're talking 25 years ago, right? 25 years. Yeah. And that project sadly was I don't know what wipes house, it was wiped out by a hurricane. Oh, okay. and it is a standalone residential project and. As we were assisting with the kind of planning of re rebuilding, we committed to rebuilding. It got struck by another hurricane, and this project in Acapulco was doomed. And everyone maybe a sign, but the homeowners were, they loved it. They go back time after time. the staff, the team, everyone loved that property and was very successful commercially as well. And. Our team. So our, homeowner benefits team, our operations team in the Americas were essentially the team that's led the re I said the rebuild and the sort of reconstitution of this property. And we were How many years? Three years. I think. Two years. Two years. Two and a bit years. Two and a bit years. We were committed to making sure that we got that property open. Overseeing the design, the refurbishing, insurance claims. Insurance claims. Insurance claims, yeah. Every single aspect of it. And our team was involved. So talk about creating value for homeowners investors over the long term of a project. I think, I think that is such a shining example of our commitment to, the people that are in our. In our world and how we really deliver way beyond just the, the list of services and home managing, the Homeowner Association and all those kinds of things that, they all do. I think there's, that's an example of really where we've gone above and beyond, and I think we would honestly do that for any project. and we get resale price premiums, commission from independent third parties every year on our projects and on projects, which are more than certain number of years old. That also includes resale price premium because everyone talks about price premium. Okay? The price premium paid by the purchaser on the first sale. The developers are obviously get very excited about that particular number, but the one that we care about just as much is what is the resale price premium. Yeah. And when we look at a number of our properties, which have been operating for a long time, even also properties which have opened more recently, like some of those here in Dubai, what we see is that the resale price premiums are also very strong. So think Vancouver, Pacific Fe, Pacific Grim in Vancouver. The, so uptown here in Dubai, raffles president is ish. These are all properties which on resells trade above, non-branded, non-branded comparables. Yeah. So that's a real sort of answer to the where is the value, where's the value, yeah. For buyer. And do you think that's, I know it's. It's not as glitzy or glammy as the other elements. But do you think that's what is, so maybe this was one of my last questions, but it's, it, is it jumping forward, do you think enough people know about this? Do you think it's something that's communicated enough, this notion of this long-term view that you have? We were talking about that earlier today. Yeah, probably not. Yeah, really. I'd say so. because it's all about the moment, right? Mm-hmm. The experience and the moment, the sales experience for that first trans, and there's so much emphasis on that, that first transaction. But yeah, I think there's a whole other, yeah, whole other side of that. And it's also, in the moment, hard to predict the future of any given market. But I think the historical is insightful. Because I think so Sorry, Dan. what I found really interesting, and this was a watch ad that you'll all remember, it was the Patek Philippe one, which was like, you never really own gener yeah. Next generation, right? So I think there's something in that really, that longer term view and value. I think that Daniel was saying that before, right? In terms of the kids that grew up going to my Coba, for example, and then they are the ones that are, maybe holding onto it after the parents don't go, or it was bought by the grandparents as a generational, yeah, pass on or pass on, or, a place that they can always go back to year after, do year. And we, some of the act examples of activation events that we do for our homeowner community. So for example, in London, every year for Wimbledon, we have one of the tennis players who's come, who will come and do a meet and greet for the residence owners in the residences lounge, our other projects. We'll look. Mm-hmm. One of the things is our directors of residences in terms of how we structure things. Our directors of residencies are director level positions. They also report directly to the hotel general manager, and they are part of the hotel executive committee. And why is that important? That's important because they are the voice at the table for the residents owners. So we are able to do a couple of things. Firstly, we make sure the residents owners are always, on the frontline of being able to benefit from certain things. Mm-hmm. So for example, if we have a group booking that's coming in from a, say a Cartier, or you mentioned Patek Philippe earlier, for example. That's the kind of thing that would get discussed at the Monday morning briefings. and the director of residence is, here's about this sidebars afterwards, with the director of operations, they reach out to Patek Philippe and they'll say, we would you like to have the opportunity of presenting to mm-hmm our residence owners of the property. Those are the kind of things which go beyond just what you have living at a property. Mm-hmm. It's the kind of tailored experience that our directors of residences know the kind of events that. Our residence owners would be interested in and the kind of attraction and partnerships that the brand can create, right? that's added value in terms of certain brands and certain affiliations that, for this is raffles Exactly. I know talking about except for that instance. Those, yeah. you'd all say another, but the other aspect is how do you improve revenue for the hotel owner? So we spoke a lot about the residence owners. The hotel owners another very important aspect in this. and it take plays back to the question you asked earlier about why do the ho, why did the developers and hotel owners come to talk to us? And that very much is because if you have synergy between the hotel and the residences mm-hmm. You are able to effectively lower the service charge for the residence owners compared to what they would otherwise be paying. And you therefore improve operational efficiencies of the hotel. So the profit margin of the hotel increases from the reduced expenditure. Yeah. And the other thing you can do is you are looking at how can you maximize the revenue that you can generate, not in a way of taking advantage of, but are presenting opportunities to the residence owners who are co-located with a property or who may be in a standalone residence a few hundred meters away from the property. Every hotel we'll have certain times of the week when the spa is less busy, for example. Those are the kind of things, again, because the director of residences is part of the executive committee, they'll be talking to the director spa. Yeah. They're looking at what, ah, your case. You've got, a particular new treatment. We're trying something out with, or we're partnering with a, a new company for some essential oils or we're doing a new HydraFacial treatments. Let me reach out to my residence owners. I know at least 10 or 20 who be really interested in jumping in on that. I think beyond that too, it's not just the hotel that's in you're adjacent to or connected to or down the street from. I think it's the broader brand that you brought into, right? If. Let's call it, I don't know, raffles, Mati or Maldives, having, they have lower occupancy. Do you do a special, package for residents to come and experience a property or it's a new opening? And do they get to be the first experience? First to stay, first to know. I think it's, it goes beyond just the what's in the direct vicinity. I think it's global, right? You wanna activate this brand globally for somebody that's made such a, investment in it. And then so then looping back to the original sort of question that we had about that global and that the right brand for the right location. what are the metrics that you guys use when you've got, just within your portfolio, such a huge array of different brands to choose from? what is the selection criteria look like and what is it based on? it's predominantly based on the knowledge of the market. Mm-hmm. And it's underpinned by that third party market studies. So the, who's what I said earlier, who's gonna buy, why are they buying, how are they going to use the property? Mm-hmm. Once we understand those aspects, then we're able to already start zeroing in on which brands will resonate the most with those buyer source markets, geographically. Yep. And those buyer profiles in terms of age, and, purchase motivation. Mm-hmm. And are they more lifestyle driven purchasers or are they more classic purchasers? So that allows us to then sort of age who's the the brand is just half of the equation, then you go into the design. Mm-hmm. So you know which of the interior designers that would make the most sense. There's no sense, for example, bringing interior designers, they've got a lot of experience to products, in that catered more to a certain sort of, demographic or nationality. Nationality. If you're going to have a project that's predominantly going to sell, for example, to let's say, three or four different nationalities, you need to make sure the interior designer is someone who has pedigree. Resonance. Resonance, and Exactly. So not just the, their background and understanding of what those, nationalities look for, but a resonance themselves. They could be a name that is recognized in those particular, in those markets. Yeah. And then you go one step further into programming. So do we, for example,

Dan & Lindsey: 33:08

are we going to have predominantly buyers who are, let's say, from their late twenties to their late forties? Is that going to be the majority? Okay. In that case, you'd need to have a kids' club. Mm-hmm. And that kids' club, kids clubs are staffed in hospitality, branded residential. Mm-hmm. Staffing incurs service charge costs. So we're very conscious of that. Does the younger demographic have the purchasing power to cover services, to cover like that service? and then you go into sort of saying if predominantly they're older, then you have. Teens, teens, club games, room, golf simulators, the list is endless. Mm-hmm. So in every single project we have a list of, must have residential amenities, and then we have market specific amenities, which are very curated and the list continuously evolves. Wellness, we've moved a lot in terms of what we're doing on the wellness side mm-hmm. In our residential projects, and even small things like pet grooming. So you go back 20 years, that's very specific. You didn't have any of that. It is specific. You see it all the time. Urban. Urban, any urban property? No. A successful urban property. They will have near the loading bay, typically somewhere that is a back of house space that is still all somewhere. That's just for off the lobby in a back of house area that you know, you're not going to have dirty animal dogs, cats, mm-hmm. And et cetera. Going to Muddy up too much. The common areas. The common areas, yeah. That means you need to clean them more frequently, which means higher service charge. But you have somewhere where you, or as na carte service, we can do broom cleaner, clean groom, et cetera. And that is extremely popular. And it goes beyond just the pet grooming, walking Many of our properties, you can go in some markets we're from London, we know the the weather in London. It's not always bright and sunny like it is here in Dubai Dog walkers. It is not right. So sometimes you need to take your dog out. It is absolutely belting it down with rain. Mm-hmm. We have in some of our properties, raffles, Boston, for example, you have a particular area where in addition to being able to do pet grooming, you have an area that's the size of this studio dish, a dog running, for dog running. Mm-hmm. And the related activities.

Adrian Strittmatter: 35:18

And so that would really I think I really like the idea of the selection based on market and client data. Then you've got the ability to accessorize, decorate, curate, so that brand really comes onto its own. Then how do you maybe on the branding side, and I know we work a lot together on that, how do you. On your side of the table, make sure that brand is authentic to the location, to make sure that it's not, as you've mentioned it, with the services and the amenities, that kind of cookie cutter, how do you work that into the brand, that local flare, that local authenticity to say it's of this brand, but it's definitely. Of this place? Of this place. Yeah. Yeah. I think culture is a massive consideration. Mm-hmm. when we are, bringing a project to market, it has to, it varies, right? we've got hard brands, soft brands, we've got a whole, portfolio. But I think a couple, maybe a couple of examples will help illustrate what mm-hmm. I'm looking to convey. So I recently, I was in May, I was in Riyadh, and I got to visit the, Diriyah Gate mm-hmm. Sales gallery for the raffles. they're an upcoming Faina project that just launched last week, for the same developer. But the experience when you go into that, sales gallery is you're nowhere else, right? Mm-hmm. You are not in London at the OWO you are not in Singapore. You are not in a different market. There is no question where you are, the way you're greeted, the way you are. All the sort of little touch points of whether it's the, the dates that are served, the drink, the hospitality is very much of its place, and I think that they did a tremendous, investment in that sales gallery. Mm-hmm. It's not just for raffles, it's for, represents the entire, master plan of, of the offering there. But they really, and I think that transcends the brand a little bit because it's about. real estate's about the location, right? It's about selling place as much as product, as much as brand. Mm-hmm. And what have you. So you don't want to feel like you could get this anywhere else. I think you want to, you're buying it in that specific location For a very specific reason. Yeah. And you know this too, with SLS Madrid, I think that's another great example, right? We learned during that process that there was a huge podcasting community in Madrid. So there was a podcast studio integrated into the, into the programming mm-hmm. Of, of that, residence because there was a need for it. And that might not be culture, but it is, yeah. Media culture right. in terms of its destinations. So I think eyes. Eyes, ears open, understanding where you're taking a brand and how can you enhance that brand. Mm-hmm. so I think culture, destination, um, sort of even trend to a degree in certain markets are always important considerations. an upcoming project too, which we're gonna launch. In, end of Q1 next year is a Raffles project in Cabo. Mm-hmm. In, raffles, Ester and seeing what's coming for that project in terms of the localization and the culture. I can't give any of it away'cause it hasn't launched yet, but they are taking it to next level. It is a very exciting proposition about the place, the history mm-hmm. The landscape, the native, fauna and flora. it's gonna be impressive. And it's very, I don't think I've seen another project so much of its place as that one. So always an important consideration. And if you are talking about, looking towards, again, towards the horizon, look, what are the sort of both on the, potentially on the brand side, but also. Any new brands, new asset classes that you are going to bring into the Accor One Living space to be part of that ability that you have to really work these mixed use communities and make them work together. What are the new trends that you both are seeing or that you're excited about in terms of innovation and new things to come? I think something that we are seeing more and more, and there was actually a recently an article in, the Times about this around, I don't wanna say hyper curated, but really very specific amenities. Things like, a lot of focus in the wellbeing space around longevity. and not just like wellness real estate, which has become a bit of a broader term, but I think wellbeing, and whether that comes down to technology and lighting and all sorts of sort of design and products things that are coming in, to real estate, but even things like sound rooms and immersive spaces that you're seeing and art gallery, installations like within the residence that are evolve and change on a regular basis. Things like that. I think there are some really, exciting, innovative things that are happening within the brand of residence space. Mm-hmm. But, I dunno, there's some of these gig projects, where you're seeing stuff that, it blows my mind. I don't know how they're, how they're gonna deliver it. I love the ideas. I think it's fascinating. But, yeah, I think some of it maybe is a little bit, bit shiny. And, but look, we've gotta a test. We've gotta try and, see what works and what resonates. But those are some of the more immersive experiences mm-hmm. I think are very exciting. Obviously, things outside of. Not hospitality, but outside of sort of bricks mortar too. Mm-hmm. Yachts, that we're seeing, on the residential side as well, not just the, the sort of the floating hotels of the future. Mm-hmm. there, we, there'll be residential, in those, propositions as well. And then in terms of, other product categories as well. so we, we've spoken a lot about build to sell residential. Yeah. But build to rent. there's a, there are a lot of investors looking at built to rent models, and that's certainly something which lends itself also to successfully work under a branded residential concept. Yeah, clearly. And then we've already got the rental pools and. Exactly. This is urban. This is cities urban built to rent in terms of long-term rentals. Yep. But where instead of selling off, a 200 unit project to 200 individual unit owners, it's built and owned by the same entity, or that's owned by the same entity that does long-term tendencies. and that is an asset class in itself, which could then be sold to a pension fund and so forth. So different type of investor profiles. And why is that so that's, I find that super, super interesting. why is that? Why is that just coming now? Or It's probably been around, but what, why? Why is that sort of a focus point or somewhere that to go to? Because it sounds, we, there's obviously a, a glorious Swiss connection here, and we all know how the rental market works in Switzerland. So rental is yeah, of course. Duh. so why do you think that's on the cards now? Because this here, we're talking about sort of long-term rentals. So it's, initially it's always been built around as a concept. The initial sell. Yeah. so you have a different investor profile that is building hospitality, but initial developers. Co-located hotels and residences, then the trend that's been continuously increasing is standalone residences. So for us, standalones represent close to 30% of our residential signings every single year. Okay. very significant components. Yeah. that continues to increase. and then you have different investor profiles who would be looking at something like a built to rent. So it's as they as that more, which is a much more institutional type of investor profile. Yeah. As the sector has matured, then their interest has been become more peaked. If I go back to the very first time, yeah. When Lindsay and I knew, when we had just started working on the first few projects, and so firstly lenders. always have a hospitality team and they have residential real estate teams. So you get into branded residential real estate, which trades for significant price premiums, et cetera. You're piggy in middle, they can't, they couldn't underwrite. Yeah. So the hospitality teams who are lending to the developer for. The hotel. Hotel component. Yeah. They had no idea about how to underwrite you. Then you'd go to valuers and you'd say, could you value this? I'm gonna put a brand on it, and then the brand is going to operate and then manage the homeowner's association and or provide all of these services. And the valuers would go, ah, I, I'm sure it adds more, but I have no idea how much more it adds, right? Mm-hmm. So that has, and then you'd go to most people, and I can guarantee. the discussions I remember having in these sort of early mid two thousands were all around, oh, it's serviced. It's like an extended stay hotel. it's not service residences, it's branded residence. It's a totally different thing actually. Mm-hmm. You know that Now if you go onto, you look at the panels now every single month, somewhere in the world, there is at least one, if not two dedicated branded residential seminars taking place. And the, there is no longer a question really being asked by the audience of what is a branded residence? Mm-hmm. That's become understood. The industry has matured and that means that more capital is now looking at investing in branded residential. Mm-hmm. And the last, area, other than the sort of the yacht side. and the built to rent that we're also in standalones would also be looking at private member clubs mm-hmm. And incorporating private member club concepts, into our residential product. so you could have a standalone residence with a private members club. And going beyond that and how could our private members, for example, who are some of our homeowners? Mm-hmm. How could you also roll that out? So if you're a member of the private members club that's co-located with your sLS residence, for example, in Dubai. what does that mean in terms of a private member's club co-located with an SLS residence, for example, in X, Y, ZX, Y, Z, yeah. And even potentially beyond just the single brand. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think I, and I completely resonate with that idea of, I remember when we were marketing the Fairmont residences at Royal Palm Marrakesh a couple of years ago, a few years ago now. Those were the kind of questions that even on the market, why is there a hotel brand didn't get it. It was super, super tough to get in. So I can definitely see that sort of evolution of knowledge and that then filters up or down, whichever way to the big investors, to the pension funds and so on and so forth. absolutely. last question for both of you different answers probably. What would you say is the most underrated factor within your space that really generates value, the unsung hero of value generation in the branded residential space, what would it be? Mending on. I'm ending on a tough one. Yeah, it that wasn't in your, pre question. It wasn't unsung hero. It wasn't. I've gone off piece completely. I would say if you look at the branded residential sector now today mm-hmm. And I'm gonna be a bit intentionally controversial here. Let's go for it. the, it has become, so broad mm-hmm. That everything is branded and the way I said earlier, everything is luxury now. Almost everything is branded. And especially in markets like Dubai, Miami, which are Petri dishes for branded residential product. So it becomes quite hard to distinguish between hospitality branded, non hospitality branded and in no way meant to say that non hospitality branded is not as good because it, it clearly they are very successful in their own rights. Yeah. And not in any way detracting from the incredible success that all of these companies have had. but there is a bit of a difference between what I would term as labeled residence mm-hmm. And branded residence and for me, and I echo what a lot of developers, have said on various panels who've done both, they said, branded a, a branded residence is only really one that is designed, built, toosh, designed to built toosh, managed to and maintained to, and serviced to hospitality standards. That Mm-hmm. I would say that the un unsung hero really is us not making as the hospitality leaders in this space, enough of an effort to really make sure that distinction is understood, globally. Understood. Yep. Lindsay, haven't forgotten about you. No. Look, I'm gonna just turn the question around a little bit. I don't know an essay in terms of an unsung hero in branded residential, but I'm gonna end on a point where I always try to get this message across whenever I'm doing a panel or any discussions. The buyers are discerning. They know the brand. Most of the time better than the sales teams that are selling the brand. Yeah. Developers often don't invest enough in ensuring that their sales team, people who are representing the brand, representing them, representing the product, have representing you. Been representing us, yeah. Have been and stayed and experience, and have their own experiences in a, in a with a brand mm-hmm. On the hotel side and even if there's a residence or stayed in a villa or what, whatever is available for them to go and experience because nothing is better than really conveying firsthand what the brand is and how you've experienced it. Rather than reading what's on a fact sheet or in a brochure or in a, even in a brand training. And gosh, we do our best to yeah, convey the brand, but it can never really translate unless you can speak to it from your own experience. And I think a lot of developers are just so eager to get to market oftentimes that they forget that piece. It will. It's oh, we've checked the boxes, we've done the brochure, we've done the training, we've done this. Let's go. But then, you have a discerning buyer coming into the sales gallery asking the right kind of questions because they know the brand. And I think that's oftentimes where things fall down a little bit. And so I think a little bit more of an investment in ensuring that the brand is well represented at the sales table and a very authentic and, And real way, is oftentimes a big oversight and something that is something I always encourage. And it's, it's not al always possible, but I think there's added, effort that could be made to ensure that, that the brands are better represented. I think if the, if you are absolutely right, I think if the sales team has got a personal experience of knowledge of is a mini ambassador of that brand. you could have a really bad pun, which is sharing is selling. but that's the truth. If you've got someone who you've got, you can bond over a shared experience. Sure. Say, this is what I lived in this experience, in this place. Then you place, and imagine you've been to the place, you'll be much more convincing. Yeah. Been place. Imagine you've been, you've visited the same property place. Yeah. Imagine that connection already, or like mm-hmm. the. The person at the valet or the beach club attendant or whatever it was, that already is going to create, a connection and a synergy that is gonna go far beyond what brand the taps are. Yeah. as much as the product's important. Yeah. shared experience is massively important. Perfect. I think the, that last sound bite is, is where we'll end off. this has been absolutely riveting. we obviously love working with you guys on a day-to-day basis, so this is a different format from what we normally, the way we normally exchange. But thanks ever so much for coming and it's been super, super insightful. Thank you so much, ADiriyahn, for inviting us. Thanks for having us. It's been wonderful.