Inside Ennismore’s Design Philosophy with Mark Eacott

In the first of our Dubai special episodes of Bricks & More, Adrian Strittmatter sits down with Mark Eacott – Global VP of Design at Ennismore – to unpack how design, culture, brand and experience fuse to create lifestyle destinations with emotional depth and commercial longevity.

Together, Adrian and Mark explore how lifestyle brands evolve, how residents become ambassadors, why some markets respond differently to design cues, and what’s next for branded living as technology, service, and culture collide.

Key talking points:

✨ Why branded residences work when design, service and community all pull in the same direction

🏙️ How “sense of place” becomes a commercial lever, not just a design flourish

🔧 The amenity space race – and why smarter, flexible spaces beat bloated service charges

🤝 How global brands localise through storytelling, cultural programming and community integration

💡 Why the future of “residential” is actually “living”: mixed-use, lifestyle-led and emotionally resonant

🏠 Why success depends on long-term partnership – not selling, walking away, and hoping for the best

If you want to understand why some destinations feel alive, and others feel like branded ghost towns, this conversation with Mark will change how you think about design-driven value.

Mark’s LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/markeacott 

Ennismore: https://ennismore.com/ 

Adrian’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianstrittmatter 

Saentys: https://saentys.com/ 

Transcript

Adrian Strittmatter: 0:52

In this episode of Bricks and More, we're exploring how design, brand and experience come together to create destinations that connect with their audiences, their emotional leavers and aspirations. Because in today's world, guests and residents don't just stay or live somewhere, they make these destinations and intricate part of their lives and personalities. So how do we build these places that go beyond beauty and lifestyle? Places that people genuinely love and the owners and investors can depend on for lasting value. To help answer all these questions, I'm joined by Mark Eacott, Global Vice President of Design at Ennismore, the global collective of lifestyle brands where design, culture, and hospitality meet. Mark brings deep experience leading design for some of the world's most innovative lifestyle driven destinations His approach goes far beyond simple aesthetics because he creates spaces that connect with people, express brand purpose, and drive long-term value through materiality, storytelling, and innovation. At Ennismore, mark oversees design across multiple brands, shaping how places look, feel, and perform, and how they leave a long lasting emotional and commercial impact in the cities and places that they come up in. So, Mark, let's dive straight in. Welcome to, to the podcast. Welcome to our Dubai special. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah, wonderful to be here. It's such a great, you know, honor to have you here to talk about everything n as more and everything design. So as VP of Designer at Ennismore, how do you see, jumping in maybe at the deep end a little bit, how do you see design in the world of real estate as a strategic lever for value. Yeah, look, and a good question, I think and it's good to also talk about. A little bit how I got here and how I, how I saw that all come together a little bit. You know, this all started for me back in London, and around 2012, I was actually working with You. Everyone knows You were the largest non hospitality players in, in, in branded resi. And this was a chance for me to bring in all of my training and design interiors architecture, working with big names Philip Stark and Kelly Hopper and Marcel Wonders. And seeing how that could work in the real estate space. Playing on not just design, but brand and marketing. And for me it was a really good sort of melting pot. Of how you could play in all of those levers. And leveraging on the name of their designer. Okay. they weren't providing a service. They were providing that, that name and that design, and also just incredible quality of design through the public areas, through the residents as well. And for me, this really was an eye opener into that world and this opportunity that they'd really, as one of pioneers in this design focused branded residential, opened it up. and here we are, you know, many years later and, now we're sort of a competitor and things like this, but it's great. We're all friends and, we're doing the similar, same sort of thing, you know, design focused. Us now with more services. F&B and doing what we do in the lifestyle space. but all of that, and I think what's caught up along that way, and we'll answer in other questions as well, is, how the markets caught up. Before it was brand junkies, people liking the names. People wanted, saw the value in this and how he added the premium. and now people just want, you know, residences, branded residences, design residences. That can be a bit more of expression of their own personality. And, and, and what we offer Ennismore in a lifestyle brand of resi space is just that. and I'm not hope, hope I answered your question somehow, but I think that's what we're saying, how it unlocks, the levers there. I'll expand a little bit more on that. So interesting, something you just said to go slightly off piece right at the beginning as we do. how do you feel there's a difference between a brand that's carried by a designer or a person? You mentioned Stark and others versus a brand that's carried by an organization or a company. Do you think it's easier for people to relate to something that's a brand that's more of a company or someone that's directly linked to a specific designer? I'm just thinking also certain people who've entered the branded resi space under a name or under a person. Yeah. And you are talking design right now? Yeah. And then we're talking, yeah. a bit more about that, but, look, I think it, it's, there's risk of course. Mm-hmm. Single name, single entity, you know, whatever happens, career, reputation, and that, that's gotta, you know, have a continued legacy. Exactly. Yeah. Throughout of that. And it can be much harder when you're looking at a brand or an organization or philosophy. I think it's, has a little bit lower risk. so I'd say risk comes into it. and then I think this obviously leads us to open the question of, so design or design organization then. Mm-hmm. Um, hospitality brand versus non hospitality brand. And I think it's a great, exactly. great place to be in Dubai to talk about this, where you have. Car and watch brands and, fashion brands, for example, versus people that are renowned for their hospitality. Their hospitality. And we are always asking, look, what are people buying into branding resi for? What are they paying their premiums for? It's not just about design, is it about the experiences we've offer? Mm-hmm. Is it you come to Ennismore to access something cool, you know, you can really connect into a community or, a members club or an F&B, you can't always have access to which we can unlock. or is it just you want that renowned level of hospitality that you would get in one of our hotels or F&B? If you go on the other side, you are going really as a passion for brand. You really understand brands. You want the legacy, you want that premium, and you're a little bit less worried about their, that sort of hospitality being served. I think for me it's a very personal thing, you know, whether you'd buy one or the other. And in terms of more of a personal question as well, is that, how would you say that sort of having worked across multiple markets and multiple brands, how has that helped? Yeah. Shape your sort of design philosophy or what drives you? Yeah, and look, it's a good question. I've been very lucky and we worked in Asia Pacific here in, in the Middle East Europe and in, in Americas, in, in Los Angeles where we came, where the brand sort of came when we we're talking about some of the Ennismore brands here. And I think not only the way of doing business, all those cultural nuances mm-hmm. There's a bit of, you know, fencing and you have to fine tuning work. You land in Bangkok, you have to put that hat on and work out how to culturally go to a meeting there versus in, in Americas or elbows on the table in Middle East, you know, this kind of power play. So. All of those business nuances, but I think it's been a great circle of, you know, learning and feeding it back into the next project. Mm-hmm. And what we are constantly doing is just overseeing design, globally for Ennismore is. Learning from different markets, pulling in plays over there that have done well, can it work here? And vice versa. And also design designers, we can constantly play that out. And so it's about stepping back, I think it is about, you know, pulling in the good and learning lessons from the bad and just improving the product. You know, Ennismore, we sweat the details. We're constantly trying to improve the product. We're constantly innovating and pushing the brand. You know, we would never go into a standalone branded Resley tower, take one of our brands in, and here we are, you know, three or four years into this game And doing really well of taking more and more of our brands, in, into standalone branded residential because they can, because the. the brands can adapt and because we can innovate them and evolve them to meet this world. and that's the beauty of, I think every day is a different day and a new challenge. And not just stopping at residential, but living and branded offices and keep going. So the product keeps evolving, which is what gets me up every morning. Just to re to remind our audiences, which are the brands that sit under, specifically under Ennismore. Yeah, look, some of them and we have 17 brands. But I'll just talk about some of the ones that are in the branded residential space, obviously. Uh, Faina. Mm-hmm. Uh, Delano, SLS, Mondrian, and all of those have got products right now in the market. Mama Shelter. We've done some great projects with you here, heights. So now we're seeing some of our amazing brands praying the play in the premium space. Mm-hmm. We're just talking about luxury and that's doing fantastically well, looking at families, but mid-scale, but really, really well there. and now we'll be taking some more brands with Hoxton and so even more into, into branding Resy. So if, yeah, if it works we'll push it forward. And those ofout the sort of seven or eight, we're moving in mm-hmm. Right now. and, maybe more to come, even habitats and things like this would be great to see Habitat as a branded residential or Habitat, A Habitat brand. what I find really interesting is that in innovating the product as a destination, as you said, like starting to add other asset classes into it, whether it's offices or whether it's, you know, anything that's linked to life and so on and so forth. You were talking really interesting also about the sort of the cultural business nuances in terms of the brands that you mentioned. do you feel that some brands like resonate better in some markets, some just don't manage you? you can't get a grasp of them.'cause sometimes obviously, and we've worked together on, you know, some really ex excellent projects, we sometimes you see a brand in the market and you go like, okay, well it's least Western, let known. And you don't really know what journey it's going to be able to Yeah. To have in that market. But also there's nice surprises ma monitoring Gold Coast. You know, inaugural launch for the brand before we even had a hotel, they were launching residential in Australia. and it was a phenomenal success. Sold out in matter of months at high premiums. And something like 90% of the buyers had all been or known or stepped into Mondrian in Los Angeles. And so this was, was a really warming, kind of always surprising us, the power of our own brands. Yeah. and 99% were domestic buyers and things like this, so. I think, we're always learning about where, how the brands are known and renowned. And then Faina launching in Dear Gate, last week as well. Phenomenal pickup as well. SLS in Red Sea, just in this sort of region. But I think, yeah, you're right. I think it's about, trying to. work out, which is gonna resonate. You know, some of our brands are more intellectual, some are very, eye candy, very showy in that way. and why not? And that's great. And then some are super playful and sassy like mama in Cape Town. and why not do things that have never been done in that market? Not just follow it, not sort. follow the hype, but really create that hype and lead something that's never been done. and be bold. So we, we always, I think that the good question is here is like finding the right partners. Who really want to take that step with us and say, journey never done this before, and like, kudos to those, the risk they're taking with us. But look great getting, we've often done a few projects with these partners before. They like what we do. They like the F&B, they like all the brands and the experiences we create and we say, look, we like a challenge. We're gonna do something we've never done before. Together. Working with great creatives like yourself as well, and agencies and, I think that's the secret sauce, getting the right team together, that mindset to just to take a challenge. Oh, and people, as you said, like people where you are going to take that risk. It's a risk with partners that you know that everyone's. Gonna be pulling on the same sort of, on the same string as it as were to get the same results. So, yeah. Yeah. And look, we've all got skin in the game. It doesn't sell. We look bad as well, you know? Yeah. It will look bad on the agency as well. So everyone wants to make sparks fly. And make, and make those sales work. And I think, you know, it's not, we are talking a lot today about design, but it's really about innovative marketing approaches. And we've learned more and more that about that in the last sort of four or five years, that it's not about getting the best designers, but getting the best creative agencies, PR agencies mm-hmm. To do something niche. And I think when we did the 25 hours high Matts in, in Dubai here, we did the film like a Wes Anderson movie. And it's just people wanted that were like, what is it gonna, what's the 25 hours launch movie gonna be like? Because 25 hours is so quirky. Mm-hmm. And so different. and, uh, so yeah, I think it's, that's, that's where it also making sure it's not just in one, one design, but in all the work, all the aspects. In all the work we do. Yeah. And I think, you know, that's a major, like a major frustration for all agencies is we're all saying like, get us on early on the project so we can all tell the story together and we can help people. I mean, that's our job, isn't it? Like, help people tell that story, you know, in a unanimous. Way so everyone's singing from the same hymn sheet. So it's, yeah, the earlier we get on the projects, and I think that's what's good with you guys is like we, we get on early and we all work together. Yes. Because there's nothing more frustrating to get somewhere and, you know, the signage is not aligned or, you know, you've done stuff and then the product's not exactly what you've said it was, easier with a big brand, but I think yeah, those risks are still there. Absolutely. Yeah. No. No, and I think that's really their, like we were just at the Mama Cape Town event, the roadshow event, and they had the model room there. The building's just behind us. We were great, but the collateral was just on point. The food was great. The music was great. Everyone was dressed. We had mama tattoos. It just, you really felt that brand. All the details as you said that night and just. Why not? And I couldn't get this tattoo off for like two weeks or something. They told me it was three days. I couldn't get it off. But no, it was great and I think people felt the vibrancy of this is something different. And it wasn't about service charges and price per square. They were just like, I love this brand. And people came up to me, were telling me stories about, they knew Mama Shelter in Paris and what it did for them as a brand. And then they were looking forward to it coming to Cape Town and being very proud of that. And it was really, I love all those stories, travels the world. Well as, as with all good podcasts, that's a great segue into our next section, which was really around, culture and community and that kind of, you know, that brand resonance, brand affiliation, brand engagement. And I think you guys you know, really do have that notion of being a global collective of lifestyle destinations and brands. but what do you do when you design a space or design a place or destination to reinforce culture and community within that destination? What do you guys do? I think a number of things. we look at the interior design. I think it has that amazing sense of place. And I don't just mean that in, in, in a kind of traditional way, but I think, look at Cape Town, I think it was looking at these tribal cultures. It was looking at the National Park has these amazing brown, dark red hues in throughout the design. and then you pick up the vibrancy and the rugs and the furniture. There was these tribal shields that were inspired for the bedside lights and then this wonderful kind of wood veneer, which was on all the kitchen front. So. It was a very, very unique design. It was very mama, very fun, very sassy, very vibrant. But you could feel where it was from that location with a bit of a twist and a difference. And so I think that was really good way to connect, you know, to connect with buyers, connect with people and say, look, there is a connection here. I think one of the other ways was we were working, with an existing building. Wonderful. Retelling a story, repurposing, in this case was a hospital building and a really important building for the city, transforming this and take and giving it a new story, right? Giving a new lease of life. and there's a really nice sustainable story aspect there. Mm-hmm. I think there's a whole regeneration point. I love that whole idea of, Not just talking constantly about, climate change, but community change. Mm-hmm. About leaving a place better than when you found it? Yeah. About regenerating that whole of debris street, the F&B, all around the area and giving it a real, magnetism from this aspect, from this building, and then the residences. And part of that is it's an amazing exclusive residences, but on the ground floor, there's a great public F&B That anyone can go to, as well as in a residence. Amenities, there happens to be one of ours. It's great with a, with another local partner. So creating something that's bigger than the building itself, how it creates connection to that community. And also in programming, right? You know, Mama and all that is about art and music and great house parties. And so I think how we connect with the cultural calendar of the city. in Gold Coast we did this great thing with the surfing community as well. How we'll do that with in Cape Town, connecting there. So we've always had that aspect of lifestyle and people often ask, what is lifestyle? You know, I say lifestyle, it's about experiences. And a lot of those experiences around F&B. You know, that whole social aspect of F&B, table hopping, you know, spontaneous breakouts at a dinner or a party. Wonderful, wonderful things that, all those memories you are created, but you create those sort of memories and experiences for people is a really long lasting connection with other people and long lasting memories and takeaways. but yeah, I would say it's through the design and unique storytelling. It's through the amazing and really experiential F&B and I think it's through the unique programming. These are the three ways that we would create a hotel, a residences, an F&B to become the heart of the community. And we've always been very proud of that. In all of the brands and all the work we do. And I think it's, I think what I really like about that story as well is the fact that, you know, I wouldn't say that necessarily that kind of social aspect of the kind of, you know, being in a city. Being of a city, but then in that notion of giving back to the city through the cultural calendar, yes, through the regeneration of real estate, I think is, as we were saying on the podcast, you know, what is value and there are multiple definitions or levers for value and I think that's, that's not necessarily one that we hear a lot about, but it is true and it does really transform, as you said, old buildings, giving them new leases of life, but also giving spaces for community to express themselves and engage with the brand. Yep. In terms of, the work that you do as well, how do you. on the, maybe a bit more of the nitty gritty, the design.'cause we're often hit with like, oh, you know, but what are the metrics? You know, how do I know that this is going to increase, you know, financial value or rental value? How much of a, like a pressure or a guidance are you given or do you have to take into account when people are thinking about the monetary value of sales afterwards? I think there's, I know we're always been commercially minded For hotel F&B or residential. And I think more and more without losing sight of their, the line of sight of their project success it. We are bringing that developer's mindset. So, for an example with the GFA, you know, giving what area we'd want, there's a real balance of if Mr. Developer wants to sell off everything he can, every square meter, even including the front door, and we are saying we need some beautiful amenity spaces. That's why buying into lifestyle, where's that sweet spot? We're not being too greedy, but. But finding the balance here, there's that whole, I've been called the amenity space race, where people adding us lists and lists of things and you go into and hardly end of it's used or, the screening room, the cigar lounge, some of them are a bit stifled or a bit stuck. Mm-hmm. So, you know, we are constantly getting pressure of there's innovate, what are people really using? and that's, I think that's, sorry, so jumping in because how do you,'cause we see that across asset classes, right? Yeah. even a boring building. And you'll see, oh yeah, no amenities and random example, like a ping pong table completely abandoned in the corner because someone had a great idea that someone needed a ping pong table at the office. Yeah. But anyway, how do you, what is the, obviously you've got the instinct, you've got the sort of, the trends you look at, you know, dive deep into these elements around the brand and how they're expressed. But how do you. How do you validate or invalidate? How do you get to the bottom of what people you feel people or know people need from data or how does that work? I think it really is trying to understand the buyer and that's a million dollar question in itself. You know, it's not, we say it's a mindset or an age group. Mm-hmm. But I make the team constantly go back to revisit the properties we've opened. And see how they're being used. And not being used or cramped space. And we do this with hotels, like I say, just'cause a hotel door's opened, we don't stop designing. We go back and refresh or update and that's good. Change some spaces. Yeah. And refine. These are edited spaces. they're constantly edited and edited to make them better. And so by going back and I think we start even for the back of house spaces, did we get it right? Are these too big? These too small learn from the director of residence. The head concierge the managing team.'cause that has to feed us back into the next project. So we know that areas we're asking for, I know that's really, you know, really accurate of what's actually needed. And we'll cut everything back we don't need, so we're not asking too much. And then look at these spaces, and say. This needs to be bigger, this needs smaller, but people want to use it in a different way. Mm-hmm. These are extensions of your home or invite a guest over and we have a drink, we have a chat, but I don't necessarily want to be in an open space. I also wanna do a bit more working from home, but I wanna have a really cool backdrop. and so creating a space for people can use these in the way they want to use them. And so we're just constantly trying to keep in tune with what that is. And that might be in, in blended spaces, the space that can be used more multi-functional. So for example, designing as a private dining room That can be used perhaps as a boardroom, secondly. But it's not a boardroom that could be used as a private dining room. Yeah. Because that's a, not as a nice space to eat in. So I think thinking the flip of everything. And especially that day to night, I think we're always saying even the renders, I need like a couple of'em at nighttime stuff at sunset. Not, not just to sell it, but I just wanna see how you're gonna use it at nighttime, how it transfers. People put amazing pools and then you have people having wet back through the clubhouse. So I need two separate washrooms and toilets and things like this. All that logistics stuff, the people can, you know, people can use these really the way they want to use them. So I think what I'm saying is by constantly checking in, constantly reviewing, validating. So the next project we go to, we're very confident that what we're putting forward in a brief And innovating with these spaces is gonna be relevant. It's gonna future be, future proof and gonna have a real meaning, meaningful and purpose to it. Because I think that's the success. we're seeing a big change in obviously wellness. Yeah. But what does that mean? Because wellness can also mean service charge. It could also mean heavily service spaces. that's a big mistake people make, of you putting all these space in the amenity. And then you wonder why the service charge has gone so incredibly high through the roof. Yeah. I think we've been very nimble now of creating spaces where it's self-guided wellness or it's this self-guided bathing or we can bring in your guru or an IV drip or something into a space that could be used as many different ways. But we don't have to have a room for every single thing. For every single thing. Yeah. In SLS, we bring in like a glam squad that get you ready for the night out. So we can really all these, all la carte services, but it could be the same room that's just reused in different ways. And we can, being from a hotel group, we can bring the support of the local hotel and bring in a treatment and service that in that space. How to bring in the wellness component. And we're doing a big exercise that, to take that forward now, just the right space of what people need in the right, in, in the best efficient monetary service way without, you know, kinking the service charge without kinking the service charge. Yeah. and you know, we've seen our hotels going from nightlife focused and celebrity, now to more membership, art and, wellness space. And I think we're seeing the similar thing in, in, in branded residential. And I think art is not just on the wall, but art as a social connector. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, so why not we say the same thing we did in hotels, in residential. and that ability, again, as you said, to work with the local community, to source the local arts, and so on and so forth. Yes. To build that community. Yeah. Mark, you just mentioned something really interesting there about sort of design iterations. Obviously now. And I know we use it. I don't think I feel guilty about it. But in terms of ai, is that something that you have helped to visualize space in a faster swifter way than you could have done before? Not necessarily. I think, we are doing more traditional design, I would say stage, stage work stages and steps. Yeah. But look, sometimes we've tested it to, To really explore something. We have used it in a way just to see what this could look like in a resort or a desert or something like that. So really to feel for it. you know, I think the AI often gives you, you know, 30 solutions and it takes a human to ring out the 28 that are rubbish and absolutely they're solid and that can take time as well. So what's really nice is where a designer and we work with really good creatives is where they've, instead of taken an image and said, oh, it looks like it could look like this in that space, they've really used AI to draw that. Yeah. This amazing mondrian chandelier in this space and quickly just shown that look like that's been really useful. Mm-hmm Even for an owner, for ourselves to Take the brand DA of some of our really eccentric brands, with strong personality and what that could like in a chrome inflatable bedside pillow or an amazing chandelier.'cause that can really be all you need to have a design cue of the brand, you know? At the end of the day here, these are fitted not furnished. And so the furnishings we're showing are, you know, aspirational, you know, we sell furniture packs, et cetera, but we've gotta give that personality to the brand. And I think it's a good question to, to talk about how much of the brand we put in and where do we put it in. Because in dosage, yeah. In a hotel, right, you can be stimulated in a really nice sensory way and you're staying like 1.4 nights for urban hotel. Something like two or three nights for a resort or something. it's a nice, a nice level. But to live there now, two or three years is a little bit too much for if, for an SLS, which is really over the top. And so we tend to like dial it back to 80% the public areas. Mm-hmm. And you can feel the essence of the brand and then pull it back 40, 50% in the residences because people have their own furniture, their own personality. And that might come through in bathrooms and kitchens. And we always say bathrooms and kitchens sell units. Right. So. But if I can feel, but it's got a good brand, it's got a, you know, gagging now it's got the ball top, it's got the Miele, it's got all those things that you'd recognize of that level of luxury. And then it's got some of the Mondrian or SLS or Delano signatures through, through, in terms of the design. Mm-hmm. And the same in the bathroom. It might be a tap or something like this. that's enough. Right? You've got a nice, so you're accessorized without being over access accessories. But some feeling if Mondrian has a bit more, you know, even the way materiality we come through, Delano is more like raw and honest. You wanna feel it's crafted, it's textured. Mondrian is more. Progressive materiality. You'd think it's more resin, you'd think it's more future forward materiality. Straight away. I'm talking about two different brands in materiality and I think you feel these straight away. not just, and of course then we would start it and go through there. So yeah, that's a really nice way of, talking about how it really comes through to the craft and the materiality as well. But back to ai, I think, yeah, I think, look, I think it's a great tool. Yeah. But it still needs that human aspect to it, I think. For sure. I think on the input and the output, as you're saying, measurement. Yeah. In terms of, Sort of long-term value, creating that community, that culture around the brand. How important is, and how do you guys collect, also like resident feedback about how, as you said, how they're utilizing the space, but also how they're becoming ambassadors really for that space. in both, you know, a positive way, but also being part of then, I dunno, broader creative community'cause they, if they, every feedback will help. Or not help, but like tweak and twiddle what you're doing for the next one. Yeah. and I think the word you mentioned there is really community. And I think when people, developers but us about short term rentals, it's always that you're gonna miss that whole community. Yeah. If you don't get people. And the idea is that people might, this might be their primary home, but they may have four primary homes nowadays. Okay. And that's fine. They may have, you know, Madrid and Dubai and Singapore or something like this. And so. What if I can move throughout these club SLS clubhouse spaces and when I'm in town, that's my home. That's the place I work from, as a network of these clubhouses. but the spirit on that community of like-minded individuals that buy into our brands, buy into lifestyle. I think they're coming from this aspect that they want. Access to something cool. they, there's people that want ultra luxury, people that want the brands, people that want this access to something cool. Be it the wellness, the lifestyle, the F&B That we can offer. And there's this trick that the, some of the director of residences always tell me is they always. You know, apart from collecting service chart, their ways the only way sometimes they meet and chat with their residents is this the whole post idea. Right. Giving posts and things like that. And that's a great way for them. They delivery, sometimes hold it a bit'cause they wanna meet. They wanna meet. Yeah. And have that conversation. And how is it going and understand. And I remember talking to the guys at OWO is the, making the drivers their best friend because of the driver, you know, the drivers. We create drivers waiting rooms now because it's about getting those off the floor, off the road and looking after the drivers. They're your best friend. And then it all works up to the residences. So I think it's coming at it from all angles. It's the residents, their staff, the way they they operate. and the, you know, people that are gonna, the visitors that are gonna come to them. I think it's all now we are creating, kind of visitors lounges in, in, in lobbies, because it might be the broker, it might be the florist, you know, not parcels and deliveries and dry cleaners, but it might be their team and stuff. They don't wanna come up to their residence. They're not necessarily coming up to the clubhouse. but it's like a lounge area. They can be received in in their, in the entrance area. And so I think it's thinking of those laterals of beyond that as well. But we've. Just at the, so Uptown residences, they do a monthly event in the property for the residents as well. And I think that's great getting to know them, showing them they've got the great cinema room, haven't they? That's right. And other things. Yeah. Yeah. They do that, but they try and move it around. The building might be in the residence part. They're a mixed use also in the hotel to show the residents new parts of the hotel they're not using Activating. Yep. Get them to know, to know them, for them to know each other. And so, really good, nice leavers to, to. Get that community talking and obviously then with the apps. And I think the way a lot of me either call up and ask for service or they use the apps to dial that, keeping that personalized service. That's one thing we haven't talked about is not just AI in digital in design, but also AI in service. In service. And we're getting so much. inquiries about do you want ar to take over your phone systems and I think for me that's a hard no. It's because that gives us the opportunity. Great. While I've got you on the phone, how is this, how is that? Yeah. we've all had the calls, like, after this call you'll be asked to do a survey. You're like, Nope. Yeah, no way. But if I've got you and I'm a human operator and I've got you on the phone and while you're ordering is this, and we can just ask you how is this and Yeah, completely. You the dog and whatever this, so I think it's, the best way to take care of the residents and create the communities. I think looking around all the spheres they working and this notion of community. Then if we take it also to kind of like a sales, sort of the sales journey or the customer journey, how does. So how do people classically become a member or want to become a member of this community and then purchase into that community? Where, what stories have you heard? Like where does it start in essence, you know? Yeah. When does that relationship, you know, maybe it is visiting one of your friends that lives in, or maybe it is going to one of the hotels, or sometimes it could be just seeing one of the posters or seeing one of the adverts and go like, oh, that's pretty cool. what are the classic sort of journeys that you've heard of? I think for us, we have a lucky advantage of, of the hotels. Yeah. Being a really early, brand touchpoint. You know, and I remember how it made me feel when I was there in, in Mama Paris West or something like this, and, you know, or, I used to stay there, so that, those early memories mm-hmm. Really, lasting memories, stay with people. And then when the brand comes to town, or. You know, that's a really early access for us. And I think, also with the F&B as well. Yes, visiting other people in other residencies is always good. We have people that visited some, but really impressed by the amenity, but just the, obviously the design and the overall balance of the programming. But I think, yeah, back to, I think it's the early access through our brands and like I said, it's always surprising us, like I said, with Mondrian, With Mama, the stories, of how people have come across the brands. Exactly. and we're, we are telling those stories and retelling those stories and it's wonderful. And I think we have Delano coming and Delano Miami reopening next year. This is a story that spans sort of 30 years. And we're retelling that story. Amazing, amazing icon. that has evolved. And people. Remember that, how it first made them feel walking into the Delano lobby and what we're gonna do now. and then if we bring a residence to London or to Dubai or something, they'll really wanna see how that translates into residential. I think it's a really good, like you could do that across the spectrum of like, looking at all the brands. And all the things that you purchase of like recurring purchases around brands and see, try and like, try and think about when was your first time, you know, with that newspaper, you know, or with that magazine or with those trainers or, and then into destinations. So I think it's, yeah, that kind of historical DNA of where did it start is yes. Is really interesting. And I guess, you know, good or bad, that goes through to the product brand as well. It goes through to the watch, the cars. I think it's that same, it's an emotional thing and I think we at the office are constantly saying, you know, how does it make you feel? and really what, how is that emotional connection? What are these experiences we're creating? there's so much. Aesthetical bombardment in the world right now in design and everything. The, it's nice just to sight sit and talk about, as a feeling and an emotional connection. Like I said, like walking into the Delano lobby, how it really made you feel. Do you have, and I know this is probably not a word that exists, but do you have community hoppers, so people who might be on multiple brands or people who feel that, let's say they've engaged with the brand. and again, maybe, but this is about my midlife crisis, I dunno, but like, they've engaged with a brand when they were young and, they love the feeling, but they feel, oh, that's not really for me anymore. So I'll hop onto another one. Do you have those? Yeah. There's like a graduation. I think. I think you, it is nicer than community Hopper and I think, people, you know, come in, love us as mom and end up leaving as a finer a delano. It's so they, it grows with them and they go, now I'm in. I'm in a luxury lifestyle. I can't go back and I need those finer things. But it, I think it move moves with them. But there's also the silver head nomad that still loves, you know, it being in a mama lobby and lying on the back, taking a picture of themselves in the mirror and, you know, it resonates with all things. So I wouldn't say it's an age necessary thing, but just. Yeah, I think that's really nice. I have heard people that have started in one brand and moved through. But also it's a bit, you know, horses for courses in that word in the urban environment, people might like Mondrian, you know, and they feel because it connects them and just those chance missing encountered the right people and, and the connection with Art World. but in a resort, maybe the, you know, in a different location, they're feeling more or their other home might be, you know, Delano. So. Yeah. I think it's, how it plays. I think for the overall is the philosophy and mindset there. As, Ennismore as lifestyle. It's that same light of philosophy brought throughout. Mama shelter used to explain itself as, a restaurant with rooms on top. And I think that just really nicely explains, and that could be said about a few brands, but the experiences around the F&B, the social scene, the c heart being at the heart of the community. And it's not just about, you know, a place to put your head and on the pillar, et cetera. And I think the same thing with the residences. So you're keeping. Keep pushing the brands, keep innovating, evolving them, and keeping, you know, refreshed and relevant is really key for us, is what we wanna, keep doing. And in terms of some of the global projects you have, do you have like one or two you could quickly talk us through the process of where you started and how that sort of developed into a thriving destination in terms of the various steps you guys go through from inception, design, delivery, and then viewing how it then works and tweaking along the way. Yeah. You have one that comes to mind? Look, I think, and you know we are, we're. we are doing, some great projects in London now. For me, that's nice to be going back home there. But I think working, for me, always trying, in Europe, you're renovating, Doing shiny new buildings like you're in the Middle East. Yeah. You're doing renovating, you're retelling a story working with historical buildings. You're then tapping into a neighborhood, you've really gotta understand the neighborhood. You know, I always believe that when we send the team to really go and understand, sometimes it's about eating in restaurants because F&B moves faster than hotels and residences sometimes. So I think they love it'cause they, the F&B bill comes back, but on these recce trips, I think it's about going understand the neighborhood. Going understand. The pulse of the city, the wellness aspects, some competitors, and then gonna go, well, what's our move? What's our play? Where are we gonna sit with this? We can't do everything. we're gonna do it through the lens of Ennismore. We're gonna do a cool lifestyle component to it, and let's just do a two or three things and do it really well, and access it. So, you know, a lot of the things we've done in London is creating these small neighborhood focused properties, that are exactly, that they're as good for travelers, for residents, for buyers as they are local community. And you know, not just putting in a restaurant that you're gonna go once a month or for a business dinner or a birthday, but you're gonna go two or three times a week, you know, you're gonna go with business, with your spouse, but also back of the weekend with family. And I think those are the nice things when we get the sweet, when we get it right. The sweet spot, I think, and a little bit of that secret sauce is because we've understood, what we are not, and how it's gonna work with the neighborhood. If you were to compare, obviously, incomparable markets, but you mentioned Europe, a lot of work in the Middle East as well, which as you said is, you know, thriving, hyperdynamic, you know, sky's the limit kind of thing. How would you view those two difference in terms of the audience or the local perception of what's been done? Do you think they're more conservative, it's harder. How would you view the differences between those two markets Really?

Mark Eacott: 38:36

I think there's a call for a lot more, integrity in perhaps more mature markets, would we say. I think, Big, shiny new things was always, was something there that Middle East was known for. Right. With projects with no budget and that's changing. I think now people are looking for more layers, more reason to be, people are questioning with budgets and I think that's good. Finally, we're getting to that stage now where there's a bit of common sense to it. And what is it gonna give back in terms of community for not just who can afford it, but really who's gonna build live here and create this legacy community. So it's really nice to see that maturing in layers and, integrity as we would in, in London or Miami. If you look

Adrian Strittmatter: 39:21

in

Mark Eacott: 39:21

Miami,

Adrian Strittmatter: 39:22

the

Mark Eacott: 39:22

competition

Adrian Strittmatter: 39:23

is so through, is so

Mark Eacott: 39:24

impressive. and, and I think,

Adrian Strittmatter: 39:28

you make one move wrong.

Mark Eacott: 39:29

And it's a, in the

Adrian Strittmatter: 39:30

project that won't

Mark Eacott: 39:30

won, won't move.

Adrian Strittmatter: 39:32

And it's

Mark Eacott: 39:32

more forgiving perhaps in other markets. So you really can spin on a

Adrian Strittmatter: 39:36

six months and get it wrong.

Mark Eacott: 39:37

And I think

Adrian Strittmatter: 39:39

maybe making a unit too big, you know, and straight away the ticket price of that unit has just made it missed the market. I think

Mark Eacott: 39:46

it is about being nimble, about changing for different markets. But I think back

Adrian Strittmatter: 39:51

to your question, I think it's, yeah, going

Mark Eacott: 39:53

into every market very differently.

Adrian Strittmatter: 39:55

That's why we need great local partners. Great, you know, sales advisors, people

Mark Eacott: 39:59

that understand it. Working with developer

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:01

who understands the

Mark Eacott: 40:02

market and wants to

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:03

do

Mark Eacott: 40:04

something

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:04

different,

Mark Eacott: 40:04

but for the right reasons.

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:06

And

Mark Eacott: 40:06

if there were any

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:08

myths that you had to dispel

Mark Eacott: 40:10

about the work

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:12

you

Mark Eacott: 40:12

do and the residential side of

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:14

you know, what you do, what

Mark Eacott: 40:15

would

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:15

it be? Well,

Mark Eacott: 40:16

I think the first one I said was it's, it's

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:18

fitted but

Mark Eacott: 40:18

not

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:18

furnished. I still like this one. I think this, I always say good soundbite. I

Mark Eacott: 40:21

always say

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:22

turn

Mark Eacott: 40:22

upside down,

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:23

everything

Mark Eacott: 40:23

that

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:23

falls

Mark Eacott: 40:23

out. You know? That

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:24

the

Mark Eacott: 40:24

show flat versus

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:25

what you're actually buying. look,

Mark Eacott: 40:26

I think

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:27

that it does take a, A

Mark Eacott: 40:29

lot to operate these

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:31

as a back of house, they're really

Mark Eacott: 40:33

what makes these work

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:35

and

Mark Eacott: 40:35

unfortunately that eats up nice, precious, GFA, which they'd wanna sell. So if you really want us to do what we do well and service

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:43

this, and that's why I'm buying

Mark Eacott: 40:44

this. I wanna get my amazing pizza from the restaurant, from a award-winning restaurant

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:48

delivered Straight Up to

Mark Eacott: 40:50

my Residences, or I want

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:51

housekeeping

Mark Eacott: 40:52

service, or

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:52

if I want flowers changed

Mark Eacott: 40:53

or I want

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:54

a private

Mark Eacott: 40:55

supper, a chef to come in. We're gonna need all

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:57

that stuff to

Mark Eacott: 40:58

make all that

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:58

work. And that, unfortunately, that eats up percentage

Mark Eacott: 41:02

of the GFA. The developers, for me, that's the biggest

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:04

conception that they can sell everything off apart from a lobby. And

Mark Eacott: 41:08

that's the only

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:08

amenity space I think it takes up, you

Mark Eacott: 41:10

need your engine room

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:11

basically. You need your engine room Yeah,

Mark Eacott: 41:12

exactly. To make it work. But it's worth it end of the day because that's what really makes the difference. and

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:18

look, I think

Mark Eacott: 41:19

the other conception is misconception is that

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:21

we

Mark Eacott: 41:21

sold, we're done.

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:22

we walk away. Yeah. We don't, we then

Mark Eacott: 41:24

hand it on to our

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:25

operations team. We then

Mark Eacott: 41:26

go.

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:27

Thanks. Thanks. In a good way. You've got

Mark Eacott: 41:29

it. All right.

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:30

And or if we're

Mark Eacott: 41:30

not, we're in

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:31

trouble.'cause you

Mark Eacott: 41:32

know, we, that's what we're here

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:33

for.

Mark Eacott: 41:33

We, like, we have

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:34

got skin in the game. We're a long-term partner. we

Mark Eacott: 41:36

then operate this. We're not just selling and walking away. We then operate this under the brand,

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:41

for

Mark Eacott: 41:41

many years to come. So

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:43

really, it's a really, getting it right is really

Mark Eacott: 41:45

important. Just like we would for a hotel. It's a long term game

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:47

for

Mark Eacott: 41:48

us, long term partners.'Cause at the end of the day, it's our brand is

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:50

at stake as

Mark Eacott: 41:51

well. Yeah. In terms of the future,

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:54

closing off, how

Mark Eacott: 41:54

do you see,

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:56

how

Mark Eacott: 41:56

do you see,

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:57

well, what

Mark Eacott: 41:57

innovations,

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:58

trends,

Mark Eacott: 41:59

changes

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:00

in, in, in the product you design, but also how people

Mark Eacott: 42:03

engage with'em? What's the horizon looking like? Look, I think, We'll park smart

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:07

homes and technology,

Mark Eacott: 42:08

I think that's

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:08

going the right way. Mm-hmm.

Mark Eacott: 42:09

But very invisible,

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:10

very intuitive. We

Mark Eacott: 42:11

like all that.

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:12

I think

Mark Eacott: 42:13

the product of, residential

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:15

becoming living. I think that's interesting with branded offices as well. Mm-hmm.

Mark Eacott: 42:19

I think it's

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:19

really

Mark Eacott: 42:19

interesting, especially without brands going into that.

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:22

I think we

Mark Eacott: 42:22

are gonna see much more of the mixed

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:25

use with

Mark Eacott: 42:26

hotel and resi because it's

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:28

a fantastic cash flow. Right. You sell the

Mark Eacott: 42:30

resi

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:30

pays for the hotel, but I think. It also really

Mark Eacott: 42:33

helps us

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:33

in terms of the service and efficiency of

Mark Eacott: 42:36

all this, so.

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:38

We keep

Mark Eacott: 42:38

going

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:38

with the mixed use, I think is a lot more, gonna see

Mark Eacott: 42:41

a lot more of that in

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:41

the future. Mm-hmm.

Mark Eacott: 42:42

But we are gonna be pushing it more into

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:45

more

Mark Eacott: 42:45

the living aspects and what that means. Mm-hmm. And, and,

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:47

we've

Mark Eacott: 42:47

got some exciting new innovation in, in, in that, taking more

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:51

brands into it that we wouldn't have

Mark Eacott: 42:52

normally done. Right. I think that's really cool

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:54

that people really want

Mark Eacott: 42:56

more and more of their,

Adrian Strittmatter: 42:57

of lifestyle,

Mark Eacott: 42:58

more of the lifestyle brands.

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:00

And

Mark Eacott: 43:00

look, I think

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:01

we picked

Mark Eacott: 43:02

up on

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:02

some

Mark Eacott: 43:02

trends before and now we're gonna drive some trends going forward. I think they're having guest house suites I think

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:08

is now

Mark Eacott: 43:08

the

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:08

common, but a couple

Mark Eacott: 43:09

years ago, you wouldn't

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:10

have known what

Mark Eacott: 43:10

these are. You

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:11

wouldn't have known. Yeah. And

Mark Eacott: 43:11

I think,

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:12

you know, we have it

Mark Eacott: 43:13

with a hotel. It's great.

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:14

You can put family and extended family in

Mark Eacott: 43:16

the

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:16

hotel. So that kind of

Mark Eacott: 43:17

answers that question, but just

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:19

I think going back to really basics, understanding

Mark Eacott: 43:24

how people want to live in these spaces now. How they want the

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:27

type of service is gonna really unlock

Mark Eacott: 43:29

innovation,

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:30

in

Mark Eacott: 43:31

the branded sector. Yeah, and I think also as you said, it's like

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:35

it's where do. Where

Mark Eacott: 43:37

do you utilize and magnify tech, but also I think it's also getting back, you said about

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:43

the concierge, going back to basics on some things and saying, these are 100% and

Mark Eacott: 43:47

must remain 100%

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:49

human to, yeah. To create that community. But

Mark Eacott: 43:51

using

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:52

tech in a great way. Like, so the, when

Mark Eacott: 43:53

I come back

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:54

from a trip, you know the pipes have been flushed, the temperature set, the light bulb, you

Mark Eacott: 43:58

know, when the light bulb's about

Adrian Strittmatter: 43:59

to go out. So that's all really good, even after

Mark Eacott: 44:01

to pay a service charge, to have your maintenance team

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:03

repair

Mark Eacott: 44:03

it all. That's great. But.

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:05

Let's use tech

Mark Eacott: 44:05

in the right way.

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:06

Not to take

Mark Eacott: 44:07

the hospitality aspect

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:08

of it that we're

Mark Eacott: 44:09

known for, but using it in a way that's gonna make,

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:11

you

Mark Eacott: 44:11

know, solve problems, fire fight before, before we know it,

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:15

troubleshoot and make everything a

Mark Eacott: 44:17

bit more seamless,

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:18

easier. in that aspect. That's

Mark Eacott: 44:20

the way we want to use it.

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:21

Yeah.

Mark Eacott: 44:21

How do you say welcome home? Exactly

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:23

is

Mark Eacott: 44:23

that, which are the, yeah, the different things. Yeah. Very nice. Yeah. Mark, this has been an

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:27

amazing chat, amazing

Mark Eacott: 44:28

journey to go

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:29

for

Mark Eacott: 44:29

everything. Yeah,

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:30

I can just say thanks

Mark Eacott: 44:31

ever so much. Thank you. Yeah, it's gone by so fast. It's been really nice chat

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:34

and I enjoyed it, really appreciate it, mark.

Mark Eacott: 44:36

Thank you. Thanks ever so much. Thank you. Thank

Adrian Strittmatter: 44:38

you.

Mark Eacott: 44:38

Thanks Adrian.