Bricks & More: Unlocking Real Estate Value
This is Bricks & More, the podcast dedicated to reimagining what real estate value truly means. How it is generated, unlocked, unleashed and calculated.
Hosted by Adrian Strittmatter, CEO and co founder of Saentys, a global creative consultancy specialising in destinations, real estate and the hospitality sector. Adrian and his team have worked on some of the world's most iconic destinations in over 35 countries.
Each week, we'll be bringing you a conversation with top industry leaders challenging outdated and limiting notions of what generates real estate value.
So if you're passionate about making real estate more valuable for more people, look no further.
Bricks & More: Unlocking Real Estate Value
Remodelling Office Assets for a Flexible Future with Natasha Morris
In this episode of Bricks & More, Adrian Strittmatter sits down with Natasha Morris, Director of Flex Offices at Landsec, to unpack the unstoppable rise of flexible workspaces and what it really means for real estate value.
From MYO – Landsec’s premium flex brand – to the evolution of the landlord’s role, Natasha shares how customer-centric design and operational excellence can unlock new revenue streams and future-proof portfolios.
Key talking points:
🏢 From landlord to operator – why meeting tenant needs drives long-term value
🔑 Flex beyond flexibility – the managed, all-inclusive model that outsources complexity for customers while boosting NOI
💡 Customer experience as a growth engine – design, wellness, and service that attract and retain premium occupiers
🌱 Built-in sustainability and wellness – how healthy, low-carbon spaces create unseen competitive advantage
💼 The next frontier – events, hospitality crossovers, and the maturing flex market
If you think flexible offices are just a short-term trend, this conversation will challenge how you define – and capture – real estate value.
Natasha’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natasha-morris/
MYO: https://myo.co.uk/
Landsec: http://landsec.com/
Adrian’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianstrittmatter
Saentys: https://saentys.com/
Today, we are diving into a product that is at the forefront of the transformation in the office sector. I'm talking of course about the unstoppable rise of flexible workspaces. So is Flex just office rebranded, or is it a fundamentally new way of using workspace that can unlock new streams of value for landlords, tenants, and investors? In a market where tenant expectations arising fast, lease models are evolving, and experience matters as much as square footage, flex is certainly challenging the way we think about office assets. But can it also be a competitive advantage driving NOI growth, attracting high quality office occupiers, and future proofing portfolios? To find out more. I am delighted to welcome Natasha Morris, director of Flex Offices at Landsec, where she leads MYO, Landsec's premium design led flexible workspace brand with a career spanning asset management, development and operations across sectors from commercial offices to residential industrial, PBSA, and now Flex, Natasha really has a rare 360 degree view on how to create value at every stage of an asset's lifecycle. So let's dive straight in. hi Natasha. Welcome to the podcast.
Natasha Morris:Hi. Thank you for having me.
Adrian Strittmatter:We did have a pre-chat, but we are now officially starting the podcast. a few personal questions to start off with. Um, we've worked together in the past. You've worked across quite a wide range of, I'd say, sectors within real estate. What has always been your kind of the red thread or the guiding principle between those different roles? What is it that attracted you and maintains your interest in the sector?
Natasha Morris:In the property sector in general? I think it is that variety. Mm-hmm. being able to switch up sectors or be thinking about different customers standing in their shoes and trying to think, well, what's their need or what's their pain point and how are we going to shape the real estate to meet their need?
Adrian Strittmatter:Mm-hmm. Do you think there's a, a bigger focus now on that part of the equation of how real estate can really meet those needs, those challenges that all businesses can have or do have?
Natasha Morris:Definitely because we talk a lot about value and how we're unlocking value. And I think, I mean, I've always sat in a commercial role, so value to me and how you define it would be, financial for whatever company I'm working in. Mm-hmm. And the way that you unlock that value is by unlocking it for your customer. Mm-hmm. So if you can understand and, what their needs are and deliver something for them, that's where your value is. It really now is about the real estate partner and the customer understanding each other and that we are working to their benefit. We'll get their loyalty back in return.
Adrian Strittmatter:And, and one of those key aspects of value for them, and one of the key focuses of this episode is around flexibility. What is it that drew you to that specific product within the market? And, working with MYO and Landsec?
Natasha Morris:I'd like to say I, I was really strategic and well planned, obviously, and you know, I, I do, I would be ashamed to admit it because I like to be quite strategic in the day-to-day working life, but none of my big decisions have ever been, made strategically. It's been a very happy accident. I think there are some things that stand out now. It's obvious why I've ended up here. but just comparing myself to one of the team. I remember her telling me that she, she'd worked in Flex and she'd taken a career break and she was traveling around Canada and the US and when I come back, I might do something completely different with my life. And she saw WeWork on every corner. She thought, oh, well this is, this is a revolution. This is the future. I'm going to work for these guys when I get back to London. And she was one of their first employees over here. Around the time she was having this North American epiphany, I would've been looking at WeWork thinking, I, I don't understand this business model. I might have been being a bit snooty. the property industry can still be laughing behind their sleeve a little bit flex, and I might have fallen into that trap. I'm I. Very rarely accused of being an early adopter. So I can't say I'm a so, and I saw the future of Flex. I think it was more around my personal circumstances at the time. I'd been with my previous employer for around a decade. Mm-hmm. And I was returning to work after my second maternity leave. And it was the tail, still the tail end of COVID. And I thought, I just need a change. I need to find something new to do. And I think you've referenced I'd worked cross sector quite a lot. I like those emerging sectors. They're quite dynamic markets. Student accommodation was one that I'd had a lot of experience in and seeing that as a maturing asset class and riding the crest of that wave I enjoyed. And so when I looked at where I was and I thought, well, I've been working for this niche firm, what's the opposite of that? The opposite of that is Landsec. So it is, yeah. polar opposite. So I thought, well, and I didn't even apply for this role. I actually got referred to it internally on the basis of the work, my history, and. I think the role suits me really well because I like being at the confluence of those different work streams. Mm-hmm. One of my colleagues said to me, oh, you are like the knot. yeah. It doesn't sound that, flashing. No, but I'm the knot because should it, oh, we cut you off and then everything kind of spools apart and I think Yeah, that's quite right. I like pulling this together so. With, with MYO, we get to work on the brand, which obviously we know it's incredibly important. Love the brand, the marketing strategy. Yeah, it's the most important part, isn't it? and all the design elements, the design of the actual, products, the build themselves, and not just the look and feel, but just the real efficiency of the spaces. I can go very long on, what should the orientation of this meeting room be? Mm-hmm. And should the table be round or rectangular. And then there's, the leasing bit. So it's market facing. There's excitement of doing the deal. And then the finance bit, I think of MYO as a company within a company and or a business within a business. And how do we make sure that we are maximizing the most for my, how are we really trying to compete with those just pure operators out there in the market. But then also putting my Landsec hat on, how does MYO sit in the portfolio offering and how we meeting different customer needs. So. I think I've been very fortunate to end up in a role that I enjoy in a market that I think is really interesting.
Adrian Strittmatter:and you clawing back a bit to a point that you referenced before with regards to WeWork and when they arrived on the market, arguably Regus could have said, well, we've been doing this for a million years. There's nothing new there. What was the shift between a Regus and a. And a WeWork, for example.
Natasha Morris:I would say it's WeWork is more customer centric in a way. I don't believe Regus was, was, I don't have a history in Flex, so I'm not coming here from 20 or 30 years working through all of the different operators. I'm very much going on the knowledge that I have, but what I, what I would say WeWork did, and there are lots of things they have. Famously have gone wrong for them, but they did. Yes, exactly. Jared Leto, why wouldn't you? Yeah, so I, I think what they did do is they revolutionized the fact that the office was really for the individual. What was their experience? What did they enjoy? Why couldn't you mix this fun with your working day? Is there something in that, the, the networking idea that kind of supporting the startup? some elements went too far, but there was a lot in that. And I think actually, you can. See that, you can see the influence of that in MYO and in a lot of the other operators out there. The approach we are taking is to be incredibly customer-centric. What works? What would you enjoy? Where do you need that plug socket so you, it is perfect. You, we are really going into it in a much more forensic way than real estate traditionally has done and it was WeWork that came and revolutionized that, really. So I think, I think the office user, the customer has a lot to thank WeWork for because they have shifted, perceptions massively.
Adrian Strittmatter:In terms of the driving I think it, it feels a little bit simplistic to call the sector flex because you are just focusing, as you said, on so many things. You're just focusing on, let's say, the leasing side of it, but it does offer a lot more. Is that still though core to why people could potentially be or are attracted to the sector? The flexibility? Mm-hmm.
Natasha Morris:Mm-hmm. Do you mean the customers? Mm-hmm. Well, there's, there's two different types of customers. Mm-hmm. So you have the customers who are in flex for that flexibility. And flexibility is a demand you see from every customer set, be it the biggest corporate, all the way down to the, the startup. I'd say even more so since the pandemic. Nobody quite knows the right sizing. Your office is still a conversation that's going on, right. Sizing your portfolio, how much flexibility you need, and you can see that, people have got it wrong and of course they have. It was a once in a lifetime difficult thing to try and work out people saying your office is ever going to come back. And what we've actually seen is they absolutely are and they are essential to maintain your culture and your productivity in many ways. So I think there's that customer who really wants either something immediately that they dunno how much they're going to be committing to or who needs it just from their own business, required their scale up capabilities. They don't know in 24 months what their requirement's going to be. There are other customers who are looking at it from a d completely different lens. Flex is more than just flexibility. It's a catchall from now managed, all inclusive offering. And that's a really compelling offer to a lot of customers. I think there's something inherently valuable going back to value of handing that over to us saying to a customer, give it to us. We'll take care of that. Or, we've already done that. Don't worry, we've got that covered. There's a value in that for a customer who's just trying to get on with their business. Their business is not fit out, their business is not, the best cleaning company that they could get in to do what they need to do. There's a real value to being able to hand that over to some to experts and know that that is covered and that is more appealing to some customer sets than the flexibility. In MYO, we have about 35% of our customers have been operating as businesses for more than 20 years. They've been in Flex for many of those years, so clearly they're not in it for the flexibility. Mm-hmm. It's something else, and there are customers who may only ever need a small footprint in the uk. So we've got a customer at my New Street Square who have 20 people in their London office, but the CEO's flying over from the US regularly. There are 5,000 person headcount globally. You can't have, your fantastic HQ in New York and some, 3000 square foot above Costa or on Fleet Street. It doesn't really work. Your office has to be synonymous. So Flex is often a way of accessing a premium, building a best in class building, but with a small footprint space take. And that's a need that it's really addressing as well.
Adrian Strittmatter:And then that's from the customer perspective and we were talking about the evolution of the landlord and the way that the landlord interacts, manages their real estate portfolio and we've always coined it as the landlord metamorphosis from going from, the landlord just picking up the rent to an active landlord to what we were talking about before, which was a owner operator, which obviously fits the model. Why did Landsec feel the requirements to create a product such as MYO to become in some instances, really that owner operator?
Natasha Morris:Well landlords or certainly good landlords should always be looking at where the customer need is and moving to meet that. So I think that's just what Landsec was doing. We have of our workplace portfolio, one of the largest in the uk and a long history, Landsec's been running 80 years now and it's very established, delivering its best in class, 20,000 square foot floor plate buildings to occupied corporate occupiers who are taking big space takes. And that was the traditional, business. But in amongst that, those customers were also asking for flexibility. We just bought this company. We can't, consume them onto the floor plate yet, or we've got this JV we need somewhere to put them. It doesn't make sense to put them here. How can you help us? And we didn't have the right spaces or the smaller footprints, or a different product that we could really offer that to them. So yeah, MYO very much was born in meeting the Landsec customer need. And in doing so, we've opened ourselves up to a completely new pool of customers. So we're meeting people at the different, either the different stages in their company maturation or just making new strategic partnerships outside of our own portfolio, that there are a lot of, opportunities that come with taking your space, carving it up, inviting new people in.
Adrian Strittmatter:And if you were to take MYO, what would be that customer journey, what would be the percentage currently of people who, as you said, were Landsec customers and have decided to bolt on some flex space? or people who are just coming off the street?
Natasha Morris:I think it fluctuates over time. And also MYO's got quite a short history. We've only been around for six years. Mm-hmm. That our first space opened in Victoria six years ago, and we grew the portfolio. We delivered four within the same 12 month period. So we're, yeah, the fun times.
Adrian Strittmatter:we've accelerated. It's
Natasha Morris:We accelerated very fast. And in that time we've also, we were on site with another one, MYO Kings Cross, which we're launching next month. And, we've got another one in design, so we've kind of sped up very quickly. Mm-hmm. So we probably don't have the longest history to look at that, but when we opened Victoria, we had customers leave the main portfolio and move in. I, we have 40% of our customers in MYO have moved from leased to mm-hmm. Flex. So not just Landsec customers beyond that, which I think is quite fascinating really, that there is that move.
Adrian Strittmatter:that as well. Yeah.
Natasha Morris:yeah, exactly. So there's there, there's a lot that's happened in the last five years where suddenly. The customer need is moving and also flex is maturing. Mm-hmm. So we're coming to that meeting point now of actually us being a good mix
Adrian Strittmatter:And it's obviously a, with changing times, obviously a lot of new people come into the, you know, come into the sector. What would you say really makes, I mean, we're talking about attention to detail, that customer focused element, but what really makes MYO different from all the others? And there are a
Natasha Morris:Mm-hmm. I'd say there are some obvious differences and then there are some more subtle ones. Mm-hmm.
Adrian Strittmatter:Mm-hmm.
Natasha Morris:I think one of the secret weapons that we have, I think, is that most of the, the team is run in-house. Mm-hmm. So our leasing team are internal. any new business, new customers brought in customer renewals and negotiations. That's an internal leasing team conducting that. And I think what's a benefit there is that the experience is consultative. Our team know the whole portfolio, they can find the right fit. Mm-hmm. It's, it's less transactional and I think that's a better customer experience. And then all of the touch points there through the customer life cycle, it's an internal. Team member. We have our own internal design team, which are design managers and project managers. So a lot of customers will customize their spaces. Mm-hmm. That's something we're seeing as a trend in, in flex. Not just buying off the shelf, but you know, really making it home. That process can be very, very tricky. Mm-hmm. It's a difficult thing to do. Building well, building with speed.'cause quite often a customer has a couple of months turnaround before they need to move into their space and making sure that the quality is there. That's a talent and that's a talent where we really have been fortunate'cause we can lean into Lands SEC for that and their historical capabilities there. And the fact that we are delivering within Landsec buildings, the qualities there already as well, and. Then we've also, so, and then we've also developed our operational team. We've gone around and really hired talent, who are experience in managing workspace, but also then really delivering on customer experience.
Adrian Strittmatter:Have you hired anyone from the the hospitality sector?
Natasha Morris:We have, and also the events
Adrian Strittmatter:Mm, I was gonna
Natasha Morris:We have meetings and events are increasingly popular part of the amenity offer that we have, we have dedicated events venues now built within our MYO Spaces and with MYO King's Cross that's coming up. That's step further because we have in an 80,000 square foot development, 30,000 square foot of that is amenity. And some of that's event space. We have 13,000 square feet building, which is just a pure event space. The kind of space where you'd have your auditorium, your breakout, we've got all day or all week, we call them project rooms. You know, the C-suite might be saying, right, we're going to nail the strategy by Friday. They're going to take that space. They've got their own kitchens, lounges, breakouts, and, and it's, you know, all you could take the space as a whole. So really being very flexible, but also bringing the talent in. So our events managers work for the Olympia is set up. The events process for Sydney World. So really going around and trying to bring that skill in-house is something we've been focusing on for the last couple of years.
Adrian Strittmatter:And is it seen as a real value? Because a lot of the time people have seen that as a kind of bolt on the event side of things. Uh, when did you realize, or, or what's been the take up within, within the portfolio, within the tenants of those events space? Well, those events. And are they open to the public? I mean, can people, is there also that openness?
Natasha Morris:There's three things that they do for us. Number one, if you are moving into a flex space, not all, not every time, but quite a lot of the time, you're taking it a smaller footprint. So you are kind of outsourcing those functions that used to be internal in your office and now you're sharing them. That's kind of how you are, how you're balancing it out. So in doing that, that that is a value because by saying, well, you can use our event space, don't have internally, we have one customer at my St. Paul's who are a media customer, they host an event for their external clients once a month. Mm-hmm. They're completely full. They have all the coolest brands come in. That's great exposure for us as well. Massive. Somebody comes, they see the space, think, wow, this is lovely. We, our, our customers use that as a brand enhancer for them because our space is our so beautifully designed, which might be not achievable for the size of company that you are, but when you're willing to share, you can, Mm-hmm. leverage off that. So the event space can be used as a great shop window for us. It definitely helps some customers have that confidence that once a month when they need the 24 person boardroom, it's there for them when they need it. And then it's also seen as a income stream in its own right. And that's something that we are growing and I think with King's Cross, with St. Paul's, with New Street Square and Bankside that have those dedicated spaces mm-hmm. That's something that we are really seeing take off. And it, and it also blends into the wider landscape portfolio we have, Piccadilly. Venue, which is underneath the lights where they have a lot of activations, and being able to connect that across the portfolio is important. And the third stream is our Landsec customers, our Landsec customer take up of using the meeting rooms, using the event spaces. That's been really important to us to be able to open that out. And it's funny when it comes up, when customers might need it, we've had one customer move out so we could go through and upgrade their building. Whilst they were in temporary space, they didn't want to drop off in the look and feel and quality of their client arrival experience. So they were hosting all of their external meetings with MYO, you know, not letting them back of house and then moving back into their shiny new office. So having these spaces within the portfolio just allow us to capture customer need when it bubbles up.
Adrian Strittmatter:yeah, and, and actually respond to that as being a partner, whatever the need and whatever the, the timeframe of that requirement would be.
Natasha Morris:Exactly. If, if one of our customers has a real estate need, we should be meeting it. Yeah, exactly. In any other way. They shouldn't have to go outside a portfolio. That's what we're trying to get to. Mm-hmm.
Adrian Strittmatter:But even to be exactly within the portfolio, but also to be seen as, a temporary, a temporary solution. Because what is temporary? I mean, it could be a month, two month, three months, and as you said, that is gonna grow a revenue stream as well. Yeah. What would be the, what is the, the ticker, the choice to say, yeah, this one does or doesn't require it? Or do all buildings require
Natasha Morris:actually? Mm-hmm. Not all buildings will work because of their, their layout really. Mm-hmm. Flex flexes can't be squeezed into any building or certain floor plates don't work or you might have to adapt the product a little bit. So some things might be better for a self-contained single occupier space rather than carving it up, but it's still within a flexible offering. So the building type does actually influence a lot. But then there's also submarket. MYO is a very premium product. Mm-hmm. So the, the way we like to design the service level that we give, it does come with a premium and that won't work in every submarket. So we are, we are not going to look at any building for it to go into. We will handpick and say, where is this actually going to work for MYO? And where is it also delivering for the Landsec customer
Adrian Strittmatter:And going back to the Landsec customer, what you are offering, one of the key elements obviously, and the positioning is around sustainability, around all the accreditations. Is that something that is also peace of mind for the customer when they come in and go, well actually this is all taken care of as well?
Natasha Morris:Yeah. I mean, we do, we probably go further than many other operators in that space. I think we can, because we're in Landsec buildings, it's, it's very hard and has been historically hard for flex operators to really play in that space because Not all operators can access the quality of buildings a Landsec building. So we've, you know, coming here from, with a running start, and I think one of the principles we've brought forward, because Landsec has such a history of designing sustainably and developing sustainably, is that we've taken that into, well, accreditation, I think you mentioned there. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so that, that's very much designing for genuinely healthy spaces. So on the one side you've got sustainability, which is more about carbon and the planet and energy use. And then you've got, well, which is more about the, health and the genuinely healthy space that you are in. I mean, the chair that you are sitting in now, how toxic is it?
Adrian Strittmatter:don't have a clue.
Natasha Morris:You're looking very calm for a man who doesn't know how toxic his chair is, whereas
Adrian Strittmatter:of asbestos. I, I wouldn't have a clue.
Natasha Morris:it could be the fibers, it could be, it could be the glues that they've used. It could be any treatments to the wood. When you're in a MYO space, you don't have to think about that because it's all taken care of. And even if you never think about that, even as a customer, it's not been front of mind. Well,
Adrian Strittmatter:Well, I'll now.
Natasha Morris:Well, you will now. But not every customer has that as background or at the moment. Has it as a priority.'cause when you are a business owner, you've got, you know, your top 10 priorities is that one always in it? We're not sure. But what you, what we are designing as spaces that when you are in them, you feel fantastic. Your, the airflow is higher. We are monitoring CO2. There are nothing is a toxic, there's toxic paint. There's no dodgy toxic chairs. You are never that far away from, daylight. You are. parasympathetic system isn't being triggered because you're with natural materials the whole time. You may not know the reason you feel, okay. You may not even be aware that you're feeling pretty good, pretty productive, pretty happy, pretty happy to be in the office, but you are. And I think what we are doing with our customers is saying, not only are you in a Landsec sustainable building, not only have we designed this space, so whether you know about it or not, you are feeling better than any other space that you're trying to work from. Here's the pack, and you can copy and paste this into your company mandate, into your memorandums. Share it with the talent who, let's face it, the future, workforce do care about
Adrian Strittmatter:I do care about this. Yeah.
Natasha Morris:So we've, we've future proofed and any customer that doesn't care about it now is covered if they're with MYO.
Adrian Strittmatter:Hmm. And there is a, wider conversation. You touched upon it about, you know, post pandemic and everyone has PTSD every time we mentioned post pandemic and the length or the time that it's taken. And I think we still haven't found where we currently are in relation to the office in relation of, you know, flexible working, whether it's or multi locational working. Have you seen, and obviously when you started, you know, in the thick of it, how have you seen the market evolve or, and then people's perception of the office and what you can offer.
Natasha Morris:It's interesting because, traditional office and flex office are impacted by the same things, but sometimes in different ways. Mm-hmm. I think in terms of is the office important? Is it about, I very much think it is. I mean, Landsec's, vacancy rate I think is something like, not 0.7 percent's probably a historical low. So that flight premium is something that's really well documented and I think we're benefiting from that. And I think with MYO we can see that as well, because we're at the premium end of flexible office, we can see some of our customers in the journey through the different operators they've been with, and as they mature as a company, they choosing, you
Adrian Strittmatter:you guys. Yeah.
Natasha Morris:yeah. A high, higher quality as they can. so I think that's an interesting story and I think that, The cost of CapEx, the cost of a customer fit out now is something that's really coming up. Bill cost inflation has been really challenging over the last five years, and what customers are now finding when they're doing their stay versus go analysis is. I think I have to stay. That's quite problematic. If you've outgrown the space, it doesn't really suit you anymore. And you're looking at the future of that thinking, well, I, I need a better space, or I need a newer space, or I need a bigger space. I don't think I'm going to be there for 10 years, which is normally what you would want to get outta the fit out that you put into the space. What am I going to do? And there's something about handing that over to a flex space and saying, well, they've done it and I'm actually sharing that investment with the customer that's coming after me, or the one after that. So you're still able to maintain that quality. Mm-hmm. You're not having to put out that upfront cost and that's going to, you're not going to compromise on your flexibility. Mm-hmm. So I think managed and
Adrian Strittmatter:Probably add to it
Natasha Morris:Yeah. I think managed and flex are really meeting that need. That's a very, very live pain point for customers right now. And there's something about handing it over to the experts. we've done it and we've done it really well, and you didn't have to spend six months of your life in meetings or handed all over to a DB contract and not quite sure what you're going to
Adrian Strittmatter:What you gonna get out? Yeah.
Natasha Morris:you don't have the design team there, but the, to work with them mm-hmm. And to really give those pointers and say yes to that, share no to that one. So yeah, that, that's, that's a very, live one.
Adrian Strittmatter:Do you guys track HR trends? There's a couple of really recently documented Reversal of moves where people have, some of the big corporates have said, well, actually everyone needs to now be back in the office five days a week. And then people on the real estate team have said, well, that's great, but we just simply don't have enough space. And people have reversed decisions or changed decisions, that we all know about. I mean, in terms of the product offer and the way that you go to market, is that something that you guys are tracking?
Natasha Morris:I think it's something that we're all aware of in the office sector because obviously we still need customers. Mm-hmm. We are providing space. Customers need to have space. I think having a flexible product within your portfolio to Landsec, for example, having a MYO within its portfolio, they're able to turn around to a customer who's maybe not taken the right size in the last few years. at least we're able to solve that problem for them. Mm-hmm. And say, oh, we understand, and you want to wait until your break, or you want to wait until that customer moves out to upsize into them. I do think that, having, having a solution for them mm-hmm. Is, is really important. I wouldn't say, I'm going as closely to read the headlines and see, which was the latest return to office mandate to be released.'cause I think they, they're typically in the same sectors really. So you can predict where it's coming. But we are, we are seeing turnstile data go up. We are seeing the return to work, whether mandated or, voluntary, increasing. So there are customers who have not got it right. And I don't blame them. It was, it was hard, trying to predict the future and trying to do that within your real estate portfolio commitments.
Adrian Strittmatter:Exactly, or even the timing of whatever the bounce back is going to be or the way it is in terms of your customers then and their return to work policies, have they come back to you and said, well, actually being in a MYO space has helped us encourage, for lack of a better word, or mandate the return to work.
Natasha Morris:We have, and I think that's where the, the quality comes in, the premium workspace. So you might have a smaller workspace, but it might be a lot nicer, it might be in a better location. Mm-hmm. So we do see that with our customers. And there's also that hybrid working element where it, the team can be quite transient. Not the same people aren't in on a Tuesday that we're in on a Monday. But there's that comfort of being in a flex space, in a managed space that actually, even if there was only one person in that day, they could still be chatting to the team outside that, and that they're feeling comfortable in the space. They're not totally alone and isolated on a floor plate. It's, it's a, it's a kind of a welcoming environment that isn't enforced social. Mm-hmm. So we have had customers choose us specifically for the environment that we've created. Okay.
Adrian Strittmatter:And others who choose to have a bit less of a, a kind of involvement within the, within the community that you can offer.
Natasha Morris:Well, I, I think that, I think that flex space is a little bit like the pub, isn't it? Everyone likes going to the pub, but they normally talk to their own friends. Mm-hmm. So you like the background chatter and the noise and the movement and what's going on. But I mean, you might start knowing a few regulars and you might say hi, but it doesn't mean you're walking in every day trying to do a deal with everyone or recruit them. Yeah. It's just friendly and familiar and you are comfortable and there's a bit of, energy about the space.
Adrian Strittmatter:you about the space. What would you say then the. How do you see the market evolving with regards to offices and consumption and do you see any, there's a lot of chat around generational differences, which personally not a massive fan of. I think it's a, like oversimplification and just an an, an easy cop out. I think people are people, they might crave the same things but differently. Do you, do you think, have you guys spotted a massive difference in the way that generations engage?
Natasha Morris:We have looked at our customer profile across the portfolio and we're very cross industry, so you couldn't say any one type of industry. Mm-hmm. When you look at the demographics of the members that come in, it varies slightly, from MYO to MYO, but nothing that defined. Mm-hmm. it might be that we have a slightly more mature business in our spaces that we're maybe not overexposed to that brand new entrant to the market, workforce. I don't think it's been strikingly obvious, but what I do think is front of mind for the decision makers is the culture, the amenity. Mm-hmm. The location. So I do think that travel times have really come down in, in terms of walking distance from the transport hub. Mm-hmm. I don't know if that's generationally led or maybe that's just because people have moved out. So that, that's been a very definable trend. I think having a lot more awareness, around the health and wellbeing of mm-hmm. Of the team. That seems to be coming up quite a lot. So with MYO King's Cross, we've. Got an entire wellness suite really in the low ground. We've got a fitness studio, we have a gym, we've got changing rooms, towel drop, the cycle. Mm-hmm. Pocket end of trip that you'd expect. We've also got two treatment rooms where we can have, revolving different types of therapy in those spaces. We have terraces throughout multiple breakout phone booth.'cause I'm not sure the younger generation feel comfortable. Just sat on the phone. Do you remember when we all sat there with the phone and chatting away that
Adrian Strittmatter:one of my key lines that get on the phone. So
Natasha Morris:get on the phone. On the
Adrian Strittmatter:Get on the phone.
Natasha Morris:I don't think the confidence is quite there in the same way when we just had to pick up the phone and get on with it. Whenever you asked how many phone booths do you need, the answer's always there. There will never be enough. So I think that's probably the only really definable thing. But I do think immunity and when you are, when the customers are coming round and touring the spaces, that's what their feedback to us is, right? This has got everything. I'm going to be able to recruit talent because I do think there is a feeling there that they are competing for the talent that they want. Certainly the customers in our spaces. So we are having to develop to that. So perhaps we're being influenced subtly by
Adrian Strittmatter:Find that as well. So obviously WeWork to a certain degree marketed itself as a tech company. We had, Rebecca Tobias on the show a couple of months ago talking about the importance of Opco Propco, but the tech stack. what is different about the MYO Tech stack, or where is it at the moment?
Natasha Morris:I'm not sure. I entirely agree. I, I think, I think we are delivering quality real estate with excellent service. Mm-hmm. That's what I think the customer's after. I think the whole, we're a technology business whilst they are very good at things and their app is great and, there are aspects that enhance the customer experience. The core offer is a physical office space
Adrian Strittmatter:A great
Natasha Morris:with great service. With great service. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I don't think I take the same view.
Adrian Strittmatter:on the tech stack specifically.
Natasha Morris:It's a very important part of being able to meet whatever tech requirement your customer has. And there's all, what tech's supposed to do is really remove the friction and those kind of things. You don't always sing from the rooftops, you just, it's just a bit easier, why. But it works and it's better, and I think that's good, but it's not really what I think we're doing. I think the tech evolution has to come along with the The space. Mm-hmm. Rather than thinking of it as a separate solution in its own right.
Adrian Strittmatter:solution, it's own, right. Yeah. There have been some, obviously it's a, as we mentioned, a hugely competitive market. One of the new entrants that I've found extremely interesting has been 25 hours. Part of N is more part of a call, so a hospitality provider having its flex solution. Office Flex solution. Do you think that's a potential trend in a similar way that you have, I don't know, car brands coming into branded, residences and so on and so forth. Do you see that some more hospitality or lifestyle operators might start to think, well, there's something to be taken and had here in the office sector?
Natasha Morris:I mean, look at soho House or any of those kind of spaces. I, I don't think it's new. It's just where is it going to take off? I suppose it goes both ways. Hospitality maybe is going to start offering more office, perhaps. Mm-hmm. Or maybe office is going to start thinking more like hospitality. That's, that's the lens I'm looking through. I'm coming at it from a property point of view. I think there's. The one thing I would say is offices probably look quite simple.'cause you think, oh, there's walls and there's desks and there's a door and there's key and off you go. And I think it is a bit more complicated than that. Buildings are complex things. They're, they're almost living things. There's always a problem to be solved. There's something to be managed. There's quality of build. There's also designing for day two, day three. These are skill sets that maybe don't sit so naturally within hospitality where they're creating your experience for shorter time periods, for touches, for, a highlight. And off you go. it's not a longer term experience. Even like your hotel operator. You might have somebody staying with you for two weeks. It's very rare you're going to have somebody staying with you for five years. And I think, I think that's probably the attitude I would take around that.
Adrian Strittmatter:Hmm, that's interesting. Specifically around maybe one MYO project, you're talking about a launch, an imminent launch. Mm-hmm. how does it work in terms of the launch of such a building of taking the product? Could you talk us through one case study, and maybe it's the impending launch.
Natasha Morris:impending launch MYO Kings Cross. So this is exciting for us because it's our largest, and as I was explaining earlier, it's outside the Landsec. footprint. There's the acquisition of this building. we have to go through a whole design process there where we are trying to look at the customer market, what the demand for the different sizes will be, that, that my own particular has anything from 12 desks up to enterprise spaces, which could go up to 9,000 square feet. So some of these enterprises spaces can be self-contained worlds, but it's almost like Flex Plus because you can take 5,000 square foot, you've got your own kitchen breakout meeting rooms, your own dedicated entrance. You feel as if you are a, a traditional occupier, but you get all the bells and whistles that comes with the rest of the building. so we go through that whole process and then thinking about, well, if a customer moves in here and they want another meeting room or this, or how are we gonna build in that future flexibility? We spent a lot of time doing that. Thinking about what am amenity needs to go in, working with the external design team, taking that through, planning, perhaps through the design stages, and then through the delivery. And then along comes the launch. And you, what you're really doing is launching to two markets as the direct consumer, the direct customer, and trying to get your message out there. That's where your brand comes in and mm-hmm. your marketing strategy around how do you reach that, B2C audience. And then there's also your agent and broker market who are really, out there finding customers, bringing them to you. They're our partners in the scheme as well. So we've got a launch day coming up. I think it's from 7:00 AM to something around 10:00 PM So it's gonna be a nice long day for me. Launch. Good old launch. Yeah. And the approach we're taking with that one is if we're selling space, that's great. You can get a view of that and a feel for that on a tour. It's hard to get a understanding of service on a tour. So we're inviting the agent and broker market to stay for the day. We're activating all our spaces, use everything, be a customer so that when you are talking about us, that you really understand us inside out. we have then a lease up program where we're expecting it to take a certain amount of time to re reach our stabilized occupancy. And it's a good couple of years work
Adrian Strittmatter:Sure. And a long launch.
Natasha Morris:and a long launch. That day will be a good day. I'm looking forward to it.
Adrian Strittmatter:It's over, it's done.
Natasha Morris:Exactly.
Adrian Strittmatter:It's a kid's birthday,
Natasha Morris:we're just gonna lease it now. That's the, that's the fun part, right?
Adrian Strittmatter:How, how well would you say the, the, to the consumer, I mean, WeWork is obviously, I would say at the pinnacle of way, we've got to in terms of consumer knowledge of a, of a, of a brand. How well, or how recognized do you think MYO is to it's always weird to say B2C, but let's say on the, on the, on that scale
Natasha Morris:I think my feeling is WeWork are probably the only ones to have done it. Mm-hmm. Perhaps Regus their length of time, but even then, even then, I think you'd have to be a little bit in the know. When I try and describe to people what I do, quite often it's, have you heard of WeWork? Have you ever seen that anywhere? It's like that, but different. So that's, that's about, I think the only brand that's broken a more public consciousness really. And that's probably more for, its more newsworthy side than it is actually because it was a brand in its own Right. So I think MYO can really trade on Landsec. As a trusted developer and manager of its own spaces, Landsec's managed its own portfolio and built a fantastic platform to do that. So when we made the step into MYO, we had the confidence to do it. And I think there is a customer pool out there who know that. And our task over the last six years, which we really have, been making inroads into, is to really elevate our name. Whether we'll become known on, every, every person's lips and the, on the street. I don't know, I, I dunno if that's possible.
Adrian Strittmatter:And it's built over time as well.'cause I'm just thinking about the hospitality sector. A lot of those brands have been around for a really, really long time. And you will have had a touch point with them at some, at some given point. Is
Natasha Morris:But everybody's been to a hotel.
Adrian Strittmatter:Mm,
Natasha Morris:everybody's needed to find an office. So if you are coming to a MYO building That's right. We are not MYO Blazoned above the door. Our brand is that our brand sits behind the customer's brand. Mm-hmm. So when you're going to see one of our customers, you are just going to my St. Paul's one new change. You not even going to my St. Paul's, you're going to one new change. If you're going to, MYO Piccadilly, you're going to loosen one Sherwood Street. So it's mm-hmm. We are probably hiding our brand in that respect because out of respect and, and put prominence on the customer.
Adrian Strittmatter:And then how do you see, how do you see the market evolving? Do you see new, well, not necessarily new entrants, but you were talking about constantly being in tune with what the customer wants and constantly making those incremental improvements to the product. Mm-hmm. Where do you, where do you see it going?
Natasha Morris:I do think there'll be new entrants. There are different people coming in to solve different parts. So managed is a bit of a growth where the landlord might fit the space and works with an external partner as a wraparound to deliver the services. Mm-hmm. Sometimes deliver the fit out and the services so that, and that can work. You know, there are some good people out there doing that. that's definitely a growth market where maybe some customers feel ready to leave lease, but not quite ready to go into flex, or they maybe have those preconceptions of Flex. So that's their stop gap for now. So that does seem to be a growth market.
Adrian Strittmatter:So how do you guys see, I dunno if it's part of the answer or not, but see like a convene.
Natasha Morris:Mm. I find it interesting that Convene has talked about in the context of Flex Workspace. Mm-hmm. I think perhaps they've delivered Flex Workspace in the us, but I'm not sure they actually went through with it here at Bishopsgate. Mm-hmm. I think that's an events based business and events, have a feature in your corporate working life, but they're not your office. Mm-hmm. So. I don't see how it marries, although I know that's where they position themselves. I can see how event space work within our offer of office with event space.
Adrian Strittmatter:I think it's really interesting the weight and the importance that you've put on that MYO being an event provider, a social calendar provider, because I think if you then open that up to broader. Oh, you can come to my office. There's a really good talk on X, Y, Z. It's a super great vector for recognition and, and
Natasha Morris:I mean, other operators have really used that as part of their brand. Mm-hmm. They've kind of been, getting those speakers in to like raise their own profile. We've gone down a different route where we give a customer experience program where we're trying to, put some, joy, interest, learning excitement into our customers days and the event spaces are for them to use to, for their own work purposes, rather than us kind of inviting and Using those spaces to raise our profile. We see it as very much, what tool do you need to do what you need to do really well. Mm-hmm. And is that having a space on site that can hold 80 people theater style or you know, 50 people scrum style or whatever it might be, and we can handle your guests if you want to. So it's really being able to use the event spaces those ways. That's how we've looked at that rather than. Probably that more social side mm-hmm. Where it's that networking get together or using that, those kind of guest speaker experiences to raise the profile of the brand a little bit. We, we, we are a lot more private because we don't offer day passes. So if you're in MYO, you are only there if you are one of our customers. Mm-hmm. And that's again, the whole maturing business. You kind of get to the point where you don't want that transient nature of the lounge outside of you. What I do think is a, an area we need to look at because it's maybe customer demand, customer expectation, where we could get to, and going back to some, references you picked up earlier, which was hospitality. Mm-hmm. I think f and b hospitality, more members feel more avail. That that seems to be something that is coming through, but it is, traditionally quite hard to deliver well and, and profitably. And there are some operators in that market, they're really pushing into that. So I think that's going to be interesting. That's what I'm watching to see. How does leaning more into the hospitality side benefit the wider business?
Adrian Strittmatter:there's a lot of, you've talked about a lot of opportunity and it does look like, you know, social trends, HR trends are all going in that direction as well. You know, as you know, we run a business and all those we would fit that two criteria of why we would choose, and an operator like MYO. As a final question, do you see there being any challenges? I mean, we can't predict another pandemic, but do you see there being any challenges to that kind of relentless rise of flex or the offices being repurposed and that that goes in, in the direction of
Natasha Morris:I think that the business model already has that element of risk because of the flexibility. Mm-hmm. So what you're looking for in those circumstances is a depth of market. So we want our customers to stay with us a long time because we're meeting their needs, but there's also that idea of, well, you don't want there to be. Have a saturated market where there's so much offer that actually then that does become challenging because when you're trying to deliver to a certain level and certainly your service to a certain level, there is, there's a cost to that. And I think my other worry would be potentially flex is not new. So there are a lot of landlords and, and, investors who way back when have been burnt, where maybe a flex SPV is handed back the keys and, you know, all those kind of problems. So I think reputationally, we're trying to grow outta that space. And if we are going to continue to grow, we all, we need investors and, and landlords to be on side as, as a marketplace to, to continue to evolve. so I think they're probably the risk. We, we want the right growth. We want the customer to be there. We want to have that depth of market so that we can be really confident that the short term nature of those leases aren't the issue. And that once they're our customer, they're asked to lose.
Adrian Strittmatter:Even if they'll be jumping through different leases, but they still remain with Landsec
Natasha Morris:Well, we've, yeah, that, that's very true. I mean, we opened, Victoria six years ago and we've had customers with us since we opened. So the flexibility, who cares? The average length of lease is getting longer and longer. Taking a 24 month contract now is standard when you come into space's becoming more and more normal, I think in the three to five year world where flex is getting longer and maybe traditional is getting shorter, I, the, the flex, the, the, the risk around the flexibility is becoming less of the issue. It's do, will we have a sustained depth of demand. Mm-hmm. And I think the only thing I don't want to do is have any reputational issue that punctures that again, that takes that confidence. Either the, the customer believes the operator will still be there tomorrow and they pay the electricity bill and all of those kind of, historical, assumptions. Yeah. And they, yeah.
Adrian Strittmatter:I think well, that's a, a very positive outro. Natasha, thanks ever so much for being on the podcast. It's been a joy to have you.
Natasha Morris:Oh, thank you very much.