Bricks & More: Unlocking Real Estate Value

Building Value That Lasts: The Four Seasons Way with James Price

• Adrian Strittmatter • Season 1 • Episode 7

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In this episode of Bricks & More, Adrian Strittmatter is joined by James Price – Senior Vice President Residential at Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts – to unpack what it really takes to deliver long-term value in branded real estate.

Branded residences aren’t just about prestige. They’re about performance, property management, and experience – every day, year after year. With two decades of international development experience, James shares what makes Four Seasons’ approach distinctive – and why simply sticking a logo on a building won’t cut it.

This is a masterclass in how real estate value gets built – from feasibility to finish, from floor plans to feeling at home.

Key talking points:

🏗️ Why great branded residences begin with rigorous design and legal groundwork

📍 How location, architecture, and community combine to create lasting value

🛠️ The Four Seasons difference: in-house management, not third-party outsourcing

📈 Why scale matters — and how it shapes service, cost, and resale potential

👥 How community, people, and hospitality drive value far beyond aesthetics

If you think branded residences are just about name recognition, this episode will change the way you understand what delivers true long-term value – for developers, investors, and owners alike.


James’ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamespricefs/

Four Seasons Residences: https://www.fourseasons.com/residences/


Adrian’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianstrittmatter 

Saentys: https://saentys.com/ 

Adrian Strittmatter:

Branded residences aren't just about prestige. They're also about performance, asset management experience, seamless operations, and long-term value. But what does it take to really deliver a development that lives up to the name and justifies the premium? So in this episode of Bricks More, we are asking all the big questions. What role does a global brand like Four Seasons play in shaping value across a project's lifecycle? How can developers, investors, and operators get branding right from day one and decades on? Today's guest is James Price, a global expert in branded residential real estate. Now part of the corporate Residential team at Four Seasons, James advises on everything from pricing and design to amenities and homeowner structures, ensuring every four seasons residences delivers exceptional value and experience. His insight is grounded in more than 20 years of international experience, including over a decade leading the international Residential development team at Knight Frank across EMEA, the US and the Caribbean. James, welcome to Brick some more.

James Price:

thank you Adrian. Very nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Adrian Strittmatter:

It's always, it is always a great joy when someone accepts an invitation to come to the podcast. So, you know, really, really happy you're here. One or two, I guess. Yeah. Well, I know, thankfully, thankfully we've got it off the ground. Um, What is it that drew you to real estate and sort of hospitality or residential real estate in the first place?

James Price:

So I think one of the first jobs I had when I came outta university was actually working for a golf company who developed golf courses and, and golf

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

We had a link up with, the, A player group and we were setting up academies around Europe and stuff. So the travel bit of it, I

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

a bug for, working that would give you an opportunity just to go and see other places. and, and then as. Part of that, those memberships that I was selling had an investment base to'em. So I had to become stock market, registered and do my exams and everything. So did all that and I thought, well, this'll be the city then after this. And so that's where I thought I was going. but I kind of realized actually I'm, I prefer to be in something which feels a little bit more

Adrian Strittmatter:

Hmm

James Price:

and, and, has more common experience for people. So I actually worked in High Street Agency in London for a few years with a couple of different companies, and just got that property bug and I've always just enjoyed it and. Then there was an opportunity that came up at Knight

Adrian Strittmatter:

mm-hmm.

James Price:

of, go into their international team. So putting those two things together.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Back to travel again.

James Price:

Then Back to travel. Yeah. Yeah. The glamor stands. R Air first thing in the morning, get out to

Adrian Strittmatter:

Can't beat it.

James Price:

but it was great and we had a great network of people we work with, in, in the countries

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

overseeing. so that was a lot of fun and I, I really enjoyed that and Knight Frank were a great team and, and, and know it was, it was, I felt in a, in a good spot there. And then we started to develop, a sort of development consultancy business for overseas projects, residential projects. So I headed up that team and again, did a lot more consultancy work and understanding more about sort of the development program and, the, the economics of it all and, and. Well know what drives, what drives

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

in, in properties and, with the, the essential ingredients that you need to build something to be successful in the long term. So it was very interesting seeing it from that end. And a couple of the projects I was working on, there were four seasons branded projects. So the property in Madrid that we, we opened a

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

ago, we had a property in Florence that we were working on. and a couple of others. And I got to know the Four Seasons team. And so I was, well, I was with Knight Frank for 13 years, a long time again, great international business. I had one boss the whole time there, Patty, who was great. so it was a bit of a wrench leap, but that Four Seasons opportunity came up when I started to work on those projects. I got to know what were then became my bosses. And transitioned across and, It's just been sort of onwards from there, really. And, and taking, and again, it's slightly different role that we have as the brand in this. We're gonna be operating these properties, so we have a different kind of role and, and a sort of, different sort of stakeholder position, if you like, within the whole thing. So we're still not the developer ourselves, but we, we heavily influence the process and obviously being the brand that we are, we have to make sure that the right quality assurances and the promises that we make and that the developers make when they're selling our properties to would be buyers. we have to make sure that everything's in place to fulfill those. so yeah, that, that, that was the kind of the, the, the route through into property really. So it started from, you know, very left field beginnings. But,

Adrian Strittmatter:

yeah, there's a coherence there, at least I think so. Yeah. So changing as we go along. Yeah. There's, we'll go tomorrow.

James Price:

tomorrow, who knows? But,

Adrian Strittmatter:

We'll see. In terms of, you mentioned something and, and as Bricks More is all about how do we measure and unlock value, and you mentioned it very briefly there. But in terms of value creation, what would you say the levers are that are consistently coming back all the time?

James Price:

I think, we're, we're often asked where the, where the value is and how do you get to that value? And a lot of the, the studies that you see in the branded residential world and a lot of the players that are coming into the, the sector, which seems to be growing,

Adrian Strittmatter:

hmm.

James Price:

all kind of say, oh, we're gonna get a brand premium of X. the reality is that, you are, you are one part of the equation. So it's a sort of building up a layer cake, if you like, of, of, of different elements. And of course, real estate starts with location.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah.

James Price:

I always remember um gentleman called Patrick Ramsey at Knight Frank, who said, you make sure you've got the best instructions and the best locations because you know when the tide rises and the market gets tighter, if you've got the high ground, you're always gonna be okay. Mm. And it always stuck with me. so I think, the focus and being, we are now pretty laser focused and strategic about where we want to be. these have gotta be, the best locations and within those locations finding the best sites. Then the next level to it is obviously the architecture. Mm-hmm. ensuring that you've got something which is generally gonna stand out as a landmark property which people are gonna feel the clear pride of ownership in, and which will have all of the sort of amenities and facilities and design elements that need to make a buyer feel, okay, this is something different. This is genuinely best in class and I, I know what I'm getting here. so I think that, those elements are important. And then we think in particular about creating a sense of community in our properties. So whether it be an urban property. It could be mixed use where typically you've got a hotel and then the residential stacked above it, or increasingly, we're doing a lot of standalone properties, which are not linked to hotels, so they're just outright residences and those,

Adrian Strittmatter:

What would be the percentage, sorry? Just the percentage that you currently have of the mix hotel resi or just independent resi, what would you say it is at the moment?

James Price:

we've, the standalone business is something which is more recent,

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

James Price:

got a few flagship properties as we'd say. So 20 Graven

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah.

James Price:

of the first ones for us, and we've got properties in

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

we've got one in Dubai, another one in in development, San

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

we've got properties now coming on the sort of, east, east coast in, in the states, DC and then, Miami. We've got, uh, standalone. So, you know, again, it's hitting those right markets but it's a growing bit for us. So we do see the opportunity for accelerated growth in the standalone area because. Not all locations are relevant for hotels, but there are a lot of, top end residential locations that would work for

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

so that, that growth is clearly marked for us there, but there's still a huge amount of mixed use properties in our pipeline. Developers ultimately, if they want to build a Four Seasons hotel and have that running for however long they hold onto it, the economics of it stack much more easily if you've got residential that you can

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

we currently, we have, 57 properties around the world that are now open and operating those, I think we have seven or eight, which are standalone properties and the pipeline going forward. We are at least doubling already with agreed, contracts on new standalone properties, that number by for the next five years. then, we have probably, about 30 other properties, which again, which we're expecting to come to fruition in the next five years. The ratio of standalone to mixed juice is gradually

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

as we focus on that business. but it's still very broad. And then we have properties which are urban, as I was saying. Then properties which are resorts, which work a little bit differently. So in our urban properties, we generally wouldn't have transient rental programs because people that are buying those, they're buying it as a very exclusive, private sort of home. Often it's

Adrian Strittmatter:

For themselves. Yeah.

James Price:

residence, so they don't want to have. James Price pitching up with his overnight bag and getting in the same lift with them. but in the resort properties is much more by nature of these things, it's more holidays. It's second homes and stuff. So in those, we do operate rental programs and we are probably about 60% urban, 40% resort at the moment. So we want to keep a good balance. I know some other brands are tending to focus a little bit more on urban because it's a kind of, often those markets are a little bit more liquid that perhaps easier to sell if

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah.

James Price:

spot. But the resort properties, they enhance the positioning of us being a lifestyle brand. Mm-hmm. And also it does open up opportunities for the rentals, which have become hugely successful for us in the last few years. we want to keep it fairly balanced in, in that way.

Adrian Strittmatter:

From a brand perspective, you're talking across, across wide range of different geographies. Would you say that Four Seasons is now globally recognized and globally recognized in the same way in different locations?

James Price:

Yeah, so I think that in the branded sector, it obviously took roots in the Americas, first and foremost. So we still have a huge number, number of properties there, and the

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

strong there. geographically though, I think that it is, evened out.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

middle East is a very active area for us. Europe, we're seeing much more opportunity come in, particularly around resorts. And then APAC has also been, a strong market for us historically

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

to be, market where there are again, huge amount of opportunity for us. So I think that that is genuinely a global footprint and I think that the more we build that, that number of properties, as I say, we're close to 60, which, by the end of this year we should have 60 properties open and operating. people recognize that value proposition. And also this year is gonna be the 40th year in which we we've worked in the residential space. Our first property, which we opened was in Boston in 1985. That length of tenure that we've

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

after high net worth who demand the very best, it builds up a very solid understanding of what people are looking for. And that is not just operationally what we do for them, but back to the original kind of design phase and knowing that we are creating buildings which are gonna answer their needs. Mm-hmm. so I think that that sort of, those deep roots that we have and the fact that those roots are spread over broader areas now is important for us. So I think when you look at, studies of the branded resi sector as a single brand, four seasons are still leading the

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

that not just in terms of the number of properties that we've got, but the quality of locations that we're in. And also you just look at the team behind it that's delivering. We've now got a very sizable residential business, with a lot of dedicated experts who come out of a residential background. They don't come out of a hotel background. And, careers in the residential business for us are, are important now. And I think that, more broadly across the wider four seasons world, people do see that as a, as a, as a strong career path for them. So I think that, we've got that bench strength, if you like, where we're coming into projects and we have the resource to put in play to make sure that we uphold the brand qualities and values. I think, you look at the, the wider sector and you just look at some of the brands that are coming into it and you think, Not only, Do you really not have any experience in this space to bring in? And that's fine. People will grow experience but you also just wonder what is the value proposition for buyers? at a lot of these, other brands, without going into naming any, I just think that are kind this somewhat ethereal connection to the, or tenuous connection to, to, the proposition of living and, and being looked after and having your home looked after. And so I think that, we'll see how it plays out, but I think buyers are. will start to scrutinize this sector and ask what they're getting from the brands I think with the leading hospitality brands, it's pretty clear that you're bringing in that sort of hospitality service, DNA, call it what you will. And I think that we, we like to think that we still lead the way in that respect. we also, I think, make a virtue of the fact, and it's quite distinct from a lot of the other brands, even the

Adrian Strittmatter:

mm-hmm.

James Price:

who maybe have third parties that ultimately will come in and help manage those

Adrian Strittmatter:

Manage and operate. Yeah. Yeah.

James Price:

do all the property management, so it's four seasons, people that are coming into these properties and looking after you and looking after your home. So it's not just about the front of house services that you see, but it's also about, the managing of the, of the assets. when it comes to capital programming, making sure that the building is, is maintained and you know that that asset value is, is protected as best you can. That all comes from years of understanding how we do that around hotels. And so we bring that space in and it just means that if you are an owner of somewhere, you know that when you go there, you're gonna have a fantastic time and every need is gonna be looked after. when you're not there, you've got a professional team that's highly competent who is looking after that asset for you. And I think that's a big driver for high net worth. And so, whilst there are others that do, do a bit of management and there are other management companies that do a great

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

for sure, I think that it's very clear when you're buying with Four Seasons, you know you're gonna get four Seasons looking after you for Decades to come.

Adrian Strittmatter:

When we were doing the preamble sort of call, I found that extremely interesting. There was that first notion of, beyond the logo and beyond the sort of, looking after you, the person, the the sort of the, the purchaser, but also looking after the property. And I think that notion was really clear. Would you be able to take us through the kind of four Seasons way, across the sort of development cycle. How do you ensure that, that guarantee that USP, as you said, that it's really four seasons from start to finish.

James Price:

So I think, it would start with the initial kind of feasibility and assessment of

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

again, we are, we're not the owners of the projects, we're the

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yep.

James Price:

and the operator that's been brought in. But right from, the outset of a, of a new opportunity coming our way, we'll run an internal assessment. Often we get third party market reports that, we have a series of very good people in the market that provide those. and we will, look at those and make sure that. What is being proposed to be developed actually, fits the market and is going to push the market. So we want to be at the top of every market that we're in. So we have to feel that we've got a developer that shares the vision, that there is a good capital stack behind it, that they're gonna be able to see this thing through. and so that initial feasibility is, is an important part of it. And we've got a couple of guys in my team who specialize in that. They came out of the Savills business and, and so we run a fine rule over that and make sure that, just the, the very outset, we're not going down the wrong path.

Adrian Strittmatter:

so you do refuse projects then?

James Price:

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean we, and we are always very, delighted to be, you know,

Adrian Strittmatter:

yeah, yeah, of course.

James Price:

courted or have things put our way. But, we've, as I said earlier, we've got a very clear, strategic view as to where we want to be. And within certain locations that will help define what we're looking at or

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

And then, the scale of properties is important for us. Essentially, when we are looking at projects, we have to feel, as I said, there's an opportunity to create a genuine community there. So we need scalability. Plus, to be best in market, you now have to have a lot of amenity program and, common areas we have to have, deliver a lot of back of house areas so that we can deliver that service standard. Again, when you're looking at an area program, you, you might have a certain amount of sort of square meters overall, but you've gotta net that down to what's sellable because you've gotta have the engine that drives all of that. the scale is a, is a key thing for us to determine, as well, whether it's something we can do And also there are things like, certain markets, we may not be able to directly be the property manager, so that's an important thing for us. If we can't ultimately manage that for whatever licensing reasons or whatever, we're, we're, we're not gonna go forward with it because again, those, the long term experience that we deliver is what

Adrian Strittmatter:

protects the brand. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. You're in it for a long term. Whatever happens with the developer, the investors. Yeah.

James Price:

now, and I'm digressing from

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah.

James Price:

but we're starting to measure that a little bit more now by,'cause we've got projects that we've been on for sort of 40 years, I'll range there. There are projects which are obviously getting older, and so the maintenance

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

and the value, when you look at resales that are happening, and we don't have a huge turnover in our portfolio. People tend to hold onto them for a long time. It's maybe three, 3.5% turnover across

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

each year. But within that, we can track where the resales values are and you know how that stacks against other properties in, in the market at that time. and it's a strong story and I think that that again, you know, means that we can tell that story to buyers saying you are gonna be looked after and nobody can guarantee an asset value of course, but we will make sure that you've got the best means in place to protect it. So anyway, back to the question. It starts with that

Adrian Strittmatter:

So go, no go. You've said yes. Ready to go. What happens then?

James Price:

then there's a lot of legal work, obviously, all our management

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

be agreed. we need to go through the governing documents, which are a critical

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

a project getting set up. So parking, all of the design work, parking, all of the marketing preparation. buyers need to know how this thing's gonna work for them. So what is the, the entity that's gonna be set up as a homeowner association? What voting rights do they have? if it's mixed use, what rights of access do they have to the hotel or resort? is there a rental

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

Mm-hmm. what are the bylaws? And so all of that detail is critical and that can take six months to work

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm.

James Price:

If you get any of that wrong, you're just gonna be compromising potentially the

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yep.

James Price:

that you have. So, as I say, we rely on the experience within the team now, where they really are. they look at the nuts and bolts of this, and

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm

James Price:

bit like making a watch. you have to get into the detail. And again, when we, roll out those governing documents, we then put in place a sort of a labor plan. We have an operating model, which, has commonality across all projects. Of

Adrian Strittmatter:

mm-hmm.

James Price:

that four season standard, but every project is unique. So we'll, we'll build that up and then we end up building up a, a budget. So the service charge that,

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yep.

James Price:

are gonna have to pay each

Adrian Strittmatter:

That's gonna be important. Yeah.

James Price:

Always the case that the capital values, even though they may be super high, that's not the issue. It's more what it's gonna cost me each year. And so the, and buyers will drill into that and they want to understand what that includes, what they're getting for it. So we're looking at the staffing numbers and the different roles and what they do. and then as I said on the, the, the IM program. Those are incredible amenities to have, you know, pool, there's so much wellness and stuff that

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm.

James Price:

now. but it might be things like we do a lot of multipurpose rooms where people can hire out these spaces, but they can also be used for, ongoing meeting rooms or other entertainment purposes. But each one of those, even if they're not serviced all day long, they carry

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

cost to them. So those common areas all stack up to a cost, and that cost has to be shared amongst the homeowners. So that's why you need to have scale. So if you're doing a world class immunity program, you gotta have sufficient scale to spread those costs

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm.

James Price:

homeowners. as I say, it's, it is a science and the, and I, this is a part of the business that I didn't really understand when I was, and even when I was consulting on it at Knife Frank, you had a bit of a sense of, okay, let's look at the service charges, let's benchmark them. How do they compare to other properties? but you really have to understand the nuance of what goes into all of. Building that up.

Adrian Strittmatter:

So the consumer insights, start really early on when you're defining the product. Yes. And defining even the legal structure of the purchase. Yeah,

James Price:

to understand what's the buyer profile, and you never, you've got guesstimates

Adrian Strittmatter:

yeah, of course. Yeah.

James Price:

and it changes. But I think that there's, there is a sense in many markets where you put a big brand on it. you're gonna be drawing an international audience. And the reality is that probably 80% of your market is the top end of the local market. Mm-hmm. And yes, you'll get some, international buyers. There are certain markets where it's a bit more international driven and that it is genuinely a kind of a broad church of people you've got coming in. but that also informs the sort of the sales strategy. And again, that sits with the developer and their marketing agent or the sales agent that they brought on board. We work very closely with them. Obviously we provide a lot of sort of brand guidance to them in terms of how they set up a project and, how they deliver all the marketing materials, the website, brochures, et cetera, that carries our brand. We clearly,

Adrian Strittmatter:

very involved.

James Price:

involved, very involved in that, but the sales strategy is something that we also weave into and, and, we have, our own channels

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

will switch on for a project when it goes live. So we have a database of people, obviously. We've got a website, we have the Four Seasons magazine. We help a lot with pr, and so on and so forth. So there's a lot that Four Seasons brings to it, and we generate increasingly, well qualified leads for our development

Adrian Strittmatter:

Hmm.

James Price:

so I think that, it's, it's a, it's a full effort across all of that way, and we, we want to work very closely with the development partner. It's not just about giving them the brand and they, go and do what they

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah. And I, well, and some do do that. Yeah. I just don't think they've got the resource. Mm-hmm.

James Price:

they don't have the expertise to be able to do anything other than just here's a, here's a, a brand agreement now.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

developer, you go off and do what you want with it. It's, it's not the way that we work. and, and that's all to the long-term good of the project. And, and we, as I said, it comes back to developers having a shared vision with us. We're very lucky that we've got some great, owner partners who have a number of projects and, own maybe multiple hotels. They've done a number of residential projects with us. So that shared vision and understanding what the quality is that we need to deliver, is just a lot easier. development program, if you've got the same outlook on board. Mm-hmm.

Adrian Strittmatter:

so talking about the investors, do the developers do the investors sometimes, once the project's delivered, do they exit and then a new investor comes in? How do you make sure that that kind of shared partnership, still works when that happens?

James Price:

Sure. So I think, in the mixed use

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

Generally the owners of the property who have, developed the hotel and the residences and sold the residences off, they're staying in as the hotel owner.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Okay.

James Price:

know, they are in for the long term. Now, of course there are different types of ownership groups. Some maybe have a different strategy where they're gonna then sell that asset on once it's established and stuff, and that's fine. and then you've got the standalone properties where it is just the homeowners. But in any event, what the way that it's set up is that we're, we are agreeing all those governing documents and the management agreements with the developer to then go and sell that, those properties. Once the homeowner association is established and the developers sold outta their units, then those agreements evade towards the, the, the homeowner

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah.

James Price:

So they're effectively then employing four seasons to

Adrian Strittmatter:

Manage and run and look after. Yeah.

James Price:

But everything is set up with the developer at the outset, so a buyer. now the buyers are obviously very sophisticated and they know what quality looks like. So from a standpoint of looking at

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

of finishes and craftsmanship and everything, we are, again, we have a huge design services team, which is laser focused on, on delivering that. and then, we, we want to make sure that, that experience that those buyers have is, is fulfilling the promise that was made to them at the sales table. So they're very sophisticated. They know what to look for, they understand, service

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

they understand, the services that they're gonna get, how it's gonna be managed, and, lots of questions get asked. And so when we. Working with a development partner, we have a series of conditions that need to be in place before they can really start talking to buyers, because we don't want conversations to start, which involve the brand unless you've

Adrian Strittmatter:

Involves your brand again. Yeah.

James Price:

otherwise you just, you're losing credibility and the developer doesn't want that either.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm,

James Price:

there's obviously a need to go to market quite quickly, but generally everybody's on board that let's get everything locked down, understood, fully formed, before we start the sales process.

Adrian Strittmatter:

We talked about the selection of, the projects you'll do, there's the conception and then there's the delivery. But There's is also a big piece, which is around the activation of those destinations, the, the creation of the community. How you do that?

James Price:

So a part of it comes back to

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

again, when we're thinking about those common areas, we want to make sure that they're not secondary. Yes, of course. The units have gotta be amazing and, and again, the. They're very sophisticated, discerning, demanding buyers will walk into a show unit or they'll look at a floor plan and they go, well, that's not quite right. That should be there. And then the relation, the proportions of room sizes are wrong or whatever it might be. But the community bit is important to us. So that's about making sure that even your kind of, your lobby arrival experience feels, you're not looking for hotel scale, but you want it still to feel sumptuous and you want it feel Grand And, and, and then those spaces, which again, are going to be driving a sense of, not just a sense, but the physical relationship of people using them together. So whether it be the gyms, the pools, the meeting rooms, the residence lounge, you want to put in, those design elements that really help. Bring that community alive. And then it's about activating that with the team again, we have specialists that are focused on managing residential properties. Yes. Some of them come out of the hotel space where hospitality is at their hearts and, and they want to drive that experience. So they will be setting up, events or they'll just. In a way it's walking into a property and seeing people, you, you, you, you walk in Adrian, how you doing?

Adrian Strittmatter:

mm-hmm.

James Price:

you again. you're made to feel home and you're seeing people around you and it's that Four Seasons Welcome and Blanket that just gives you that feel of, oh, I really bought into a good place here. I really feel looked after so many other residential projects you go into. You might see somebody behind a desk, in a reception. You might bump into a cleaner or something, but that's, that's

Adrian Strittmatter:

it's about it. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

James Price:

It is, after all, you get the right locations, you get great architecture. It's people that bring it alive. So we always say we're a people business. and that's at the heart of everything we do. And I think that, owners that have been with us for years, they really grow to rely on that delivery from four Seasons. the, the leaders of the properties that we have are directors of residences. Mm-hmm. residential GMs and, and stuff. They are developing relationships with owners that last for decades and maybe pass down through generations. So I think that, getting the right people, I.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Hmm

James Price:

critical for us in the same way as a hotel, you've gotta have the right leaders in place and they then are the culture carriers into that property and they will then imbue the rest of the team with the same service ethic. And, for us it's, it's a very simple thing. You just, you, you, you look after

Adrian Strittmatter:

mm-hmm.

James Price:

sure those people are the right ones. And then the nurtured, we also have, within the way that we, we work, we have, a corporate team which obviously has functions

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

that initial development phase in the sales and marketing, the space that I'm in. And then we have people who are management and properties,

Adrian Strittmatter:

Asset management side of it. Yeah.

James Price:

and they are constantly bringing together. The different property leadership team. So we have a director's residence conference, they're learning from each other. They, what experience that they've got, what did they do that, worked really well on that property. Obviously more, things like new protocol protocols

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

we wanna roll out. There is a constant sort of bringing together of those properties. And again, that's what the brand is doing and you've got that, that bench strength from the corporate, which is helping the field the whole time. It works beautifully. and each property kind of thrives on having that support.

Adrian Strittmatter:

I think that, that's a really interesting point because obviously you, a lot of the people would be talking about the experience and seeing the experience as you were saying. It's, it's the, it's the welcome. It's the, the activation of the spaces, the, that, that creation of community, but it is also an investment and has to be, managed as such. I think what's really interesting in what you're saying is that that bit of it, which is behind the reception desk if we were, is also a key, a key component, isn't it?

James Price:

when we're, doing our initial kind of

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

and certainly when we're doing the brand onboarding with, their teams and the creative agents and the the sales agents, certainly we will spend a lot of time talking about, you know, there's no secret sauce or anything like that. It's just that, you do all these things.'cause, you know, that's what's critical to maintain that, that ownership experience for the buyers. and so we'll spend a lot of time walking them through, that behind the scenes element. And again, it comes back to the design I mentioned earlier, the back of house areas. You've gotta have, very nicely done back a house so that the staff feel that they're in a nice place, they're proud to work there. so they've gotta have the right facilities, breakout areas, cafes, et cetera. So all of that needs to get built into the design, and then you're gonna get good people wanting to work in that building because it becomes a trophy building and it's, they feel pride to work in there. and, and I think, beyond that then it's really about, ensuring that, again, the, the, the lessons that we've learned over those 40 years and what's important to, to buyers that's brought to the fore, in every kind of touch point that, that, a, a, a member of staff would have with the, with the

Adrian Strittmatter:

With the owners. I mean, in terms of that sense of activation and community, do you have tech platforms, community activation platforms and app for homeowners as well? Have you, have you gone down that route as well? Yeah, so we have,

James Price:

a, we've got an app. We've, we have an app just generally for, any guests coming

Adrian Strittmatter:

mm-hmm.

James Price:

Four Seasons. but we've developed that further for a

Adrian Strittmatter:

For resi? Yeah.

James Price:

and that's got various different added sort of functionality to it. there's an ability obviously to go in and just check your,

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm.

James Price:

HOA documents or, the annual accounts, whatever. so that's one element to it. Obviously you can

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm.

James Price:

on that. So if you want to go and book something in the spa, if you've got, some guests coming in and you wanna make the front desk aware, clearly you can just do that. We have a chat function on it, which works brilliantly. and it's, very responsive, but it's also humans responding to you. So you, you feel, again, you can

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah,

James Price:

that functionality doesn't replace the human

Adrian Strittmatter:

no,

James Price:

will always sort of,

Adrian Strittmatter:

definitely. Yeah.

James Price:

and stuff. but having the ability, just a couple of buttons to check that is important. Plus, that's got an a, a functional whereby you can chat with other homeowners for those that are signed up to that. So again,

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm

James Price:

that sense of community, to, to do that. So you're, you're using tech to back up what you are already putting in

Adrian Strittmatter:

mm.

James Price:

um, through the building. So yeah, it's important.

Adrian Strittmatter:

How many of the owners do converse with each other, have that sense of community? As you said, if you've been in a building for, or building or residents for more than 10 years, you'll obviously know who your neighbors are, especially if that, if there isn't a sort of churn.

James Price:

very strong. sometimes you think, oh, you hear about who's buying into the building, oh, they'll be quite private and won't wanna do that. But, inevitably when people get in and they get settled, they, they love that. And they're buying into the building because it is a community. they're buying in because they think they're gonna have like-minded people who are gonna be in that building. And that's part of the joy of it, I think. Mm-hmm. it's really not, about opening the front door, going, going through some common areas, going up to your unit, closing the door. It's, it's, yes, of course you can do all of that, but you've got these elements which are designed into the program and which are activated by the team to really foster that. So, it's a strong part of it, and it's something that we, you know, it's, it's critical for us to make sure that each building we have, delivers on that.

Adrian Strittmatter:

And then sort of on, on that basis then I think maybe for, for yourselves and for the homeowners, if, for, for lack of a better word, how do you measure success? What would be the metrics that you look at? Do you go to the properties and, and see how they're working once they're developed? how do you, how do you measure that success?

James Price:

there's, there's a constant sort of check in. physically

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

the business will go around the properties, just check in with the directors of residents, often meeting homeowners, just anecdotally having chats with them. How's it all going? But beyond that, we also do, homeowner surveys so that we want to understand, what's working well for them, what we could maybe focus a bit more on. so there are constant sort of check-ins and sort of

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

how we're doing. Ultimately, the measure, I guess, is, if, if the homeowner Association is happy or not,

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah, you do.

James Price:

you, you're gonna hear

Adrian Strittmatter:

You'd be the first to know. Yeah,

James Price:

Um,

Adrian Strittmatter:

definitely.

James Price:

we did, generally there are annual meetings where they're approving the budgets for the next year. And, it's any kind of areas that will come up. That's when they'll raise them. But I, I suppose the ultimate measure is, how many people are selling out of it and moving

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah, that's true.

James Price:

are always going to, sell real estate for whatever reasons, they've, changing location, circumstances change. But as I said earlier, the rate of turnover is really quite small. that tells you you are doing something right.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm. And when there is a resale, the very rare times when there is a resale, how, how is that vetted? Is it, how is the process vetted? I dunno, it's a bit of a strange information question, but Well,

James Price:

people are buying them as their own property. Yes. It's managed by Four Seasons. It comes under the brand, but, ultimately it's somebody's property, so no different from any other real

Adrian Strittmatter:

mm.

James Price:

know, they will, you know, through a third party agent or whatever, they will, agree a sale

Adrian Strittmatter:

Okay. And that's how it goes through. Okay.

James Price:

there's no sort of outright restrictions or, or things like that. So it's, yeah, it's pretty standard.

Adrian Strittmatter:

And then on the, on the flip coin, so that's for the, for the selling, but in terms of the sort of the rental programs and so on and so forth, how many people, as you said, there's a mixed use of people and why they buy the summit? It's for themselves. Yeah. But when there is a rental program, how does that, how does that work then?

James Price:

the resorts where there's a rental program. so those units, when they're developed, they have to be developed to be in keeping with the hotel

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

ultimately whilst they're selling to an individual, it's then renting through the hotel as an extension of the hotel

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah.

James Price:

a special asset class within that hotel inventory. But they're selling as part of that. So all the connectivity and the IT functions that you think that you have in a hotel room that's gotta be repeated through to those

Adrian Strittmatter:

Pretty reside. Yeah.

James Price:

qualities of FFF and e furnishings, all the different items that you expect to be in a room when you sell a hotel. Again, those all need to be there. Um, you know, the Four Seasons towels

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

all that. All of those get, get put through. So I think that, that's, the, the setup of it is pretty clear and we're quite prescriptive about that because we have to

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yep. You have to deliver the standard. Yeah.

James Price:

and it generally works quite well. And, and people, the one thing I would say is that the people buying into these resort properties, they're still driven really by the fact that they're gonna use it themselves for some of the time. Then they will take advantage of there being a rental program where they can generate some revenue. But we don't make any guarantees or promises around that because you can't, and so it would be wrong to take people down. And again, timing, again, different properties being advertised with certain guaranteed yields and stuff, and it's just not the way that we would go.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

much more of a commercial investment versus a lifestyle purchase of a, of a home. and then the other thing that we see, so that's in transient rental where, you know, hotel guest traffic, in a lot of our properties, people that have bought them in the urban properties in particular, Maybe using themselves as a primary residents. Maybe they're there on a very ad hoc basis. If they're not planning to be there for a period of time, then they'll probably, look to let them out on a longer term basis.

Adrian Strittmatter:

And that would be through you as well, or,

James Price:

they tend, they tend at the moment to do that through lettings companies

Adrian Strittmatter:

okay. Yeah.

James Price:

that area. they will, they, they'll typically be on a minimum 12 month basis.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Okay.

James Price:

again, we don't want to have transient guest

Adrian Strittmatter:

You don't want the Airbnb?

James Price:

that's there for 12 months becomes a fixture in

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

James Price:

know, the homeowners get to know them and, they become part of that community. And somebody who is a tenant, long-term tenant of a Four Seasons property has exactly the same rights as the, as the owner using that property, they can go and use all the facilities, they services, et cetera. yeah.

Adrian Strittmatter:

In terms of, obviously you've, your four seasons are near to 60, 60, live and live and kicking projects. What would you say is for you in terms of that full journey, that kind of best in class benchmark, where you said it was like everything all the boxes were ticked, it ran super smoothly, and the value generated from start to finish was an exceptional. Do you have one that comes to mind? A few things?

James Price:

sort of stand out as, and, and I've been with Four Seasons, it's come out for 10

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

seen a few of them now that have come from me, from day one right through to finish, which is, is nice to see

Adrian Strittmatter:

Right.

James Price:

I think that the first standalone property we had in

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

is a, if you like, a bit of a poster child. For me it was great partner. So the owner of our two, hotel properties in Dubai who has a real understanding of what quality and luxury looks like, he's gotta find sort of attention to detail himself. and just a pleasure to work with. So I think, that was great at the start and then getting involved in that process throughout and what we did there. And I suppose the lesson is you look at that Dubai market and there's a lot of high volume buildings there and everybody's going after a brand and you, you're trying to deliver these sort of, incredible

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

His attention was very much about let's do something which is quite boutique in size. There's only 28 units in this property. Mm-hmm. In the Dubai scale of things is pretty small, but

Adrian Strittmatter:

is boutique, right? Location. Yeah.

James Price:

in Humira

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah.

James Price:

want to be. the design was beautiful. the interior design, from Civil de Marjorie out of Paris was, was beautiful. And the, just the quality, that was put in place there was exceptional. Again, great

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

Not oversized.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yep.

James Price:

Yeah. Because you've

Adrian Strittmatter:

But just right. Yeah.

James Price:

you know, the gym is, is huge and, and lovely, they got the bits that would be important for their buyers, right? Mm-hmm. So it's worked incredibly well and everybody's, I think very happy with the experience that they've got there. From a commercial standpoint, it worked very well for the developer at the time. It actually sold very, very

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

before it really went into sort of proper open market. It just sold and. there have been one or two resells in there because the demand Dubai market's just gone like that.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yep.

James Price:

know, the, the, the price increases have been phenomenal. some people are clearly gonna take advantage of that, but again, most people have stayed within the

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

so I think, being across all of that detail through that project

Adrian Strittmatter:

Through the lifecycle and everything. Yeah.

James Price:

great to see. So that was, that was good as a kind of something that's worked really well. I think that, again. One of the first projects I worked on when I was still at Knight

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

was the Madrid Project, as I mentioned. And so seeing that then come out, and that was a lesson in which, you could see the pricing expectations that we were looking for. There were completely outta kilter with the Madrid market. And this was a location which was a non-traditional residential area, and

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah.

James Price:

is very commercial. but beautiful property, with the hotel, and then just 22 residential units sitting on, on top floors. and again, design, beautifully done. the icy program is more obviously shared with the hotel'cause it's fully integrated. but they got a, easily a 50% premium against the market, even though it was in a, a, not such a good neighborhood and again, had a good traction of, of, of sales

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

So again, it showed that the brand can do something in those markets. And the other one that always took me by surprise and I refer to quite a lot is the residential project we have as part of a mixed use hotel in Kyoto. when we first started looking at that again with a development partner that owns, now multiple properties with us, great partner. when I was first looking at that, they were talking about the pricing aspirations they had, which were. up here, and I looked at the market and the best

Adrian Strittmatter:

Like it seems the market's here,

James Price:

So there's no way, I'm sorry, but you're, you're barking Sure enough goes to market and they achieve

Adrian Strittmatter:

and they achieve that.

James Price:

And I just, it was about a lesson that you don't know all markets, you, you can, you can be

Adrian Strittmatter:

You can still be surprised. Be surprised. Yeah.

James Price:

kyo is just one of those gems as a location that people just, you know, the right people put such, attach such importance and value to it. Plus there was nothing really like us in that

Adrian Strittmatter:

In.

James Price:

time. So you were producing something that was very different from anything else that was there. So it wasn't, it wasn't right to benchmark it against other real estate. So again, it, it's taught me that there are lots of markets that are very mature. London, New York, Miami, Dubai, where there's plenty of other kind of direct things that you're gonna look as your

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm.

James Price:

It, it doesn't need to be that for you to still be successful in a market, you can generally raise the bar quite aggressively.

Adrian Strittmatter:

And be the first to market in that sense. Yeah.

James Price:

Yeah. And we're, we're we, I would say that we're quite pioneering in many ways. And, and there probably are a number of locations that we're in, both in mature destinations. The US have probably got some cities we're in, which people might be surprised that we're in. But, we've done incredibly well with projects there. But people have understood that value proposition of four Seasons. And, and they're prepared to pay, healthy prices. you, you, you pay for what you, you get what you pay for,

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

James Price:

know, you have to, again, back to what I was saying earlier, you gotta, you gotta fulfill

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

you've gotta deliver it. but if you do that, then people feel good that they've made even a top price. They made a good

Adrian Strittmatter:

I, I just wanna come back to circle back to something that you said before. cause I think that's a really interesting point about that sort of in terms of the people you'll be selling to is that 80% are going to be the, the top of that, of that market. That's, that's quite an interesting stat.'cause you would've thought that if someone is, from the location you have, we have a better knowledge of the location you have, you have standalone properties that you could go for. How do you think, why is that sort of successful? I think it's not 80%. No, no, of course. But yeah,

James Price:

get certain markets where it is genuinely very international and you're gonna get, a myriad of different nationalities buying into it. but I think in many cases, I. The low hanging fruit really is the top end of the local market because people might have their primary residence, but they still want to have, and they can afford to have the best new thing in that market. And again, the brand brings that cache. It's something that you want to have, it's a trophy asset for you. Even if you're then gonna be, as we were saying, leasing it out and not using it yourself, people still want to have ownership of that trophy asset. So I think that, that's, it's always easier to find those people in that market already than to bring them from somewhere else to buy real estate in a certain location. If you're not there, there's a reason for you to buy it. And so either you see a great opportunity and you think the market's gonna go like that, or you are going there frequently

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah. You have a relationship with the place? Yeah. Yeah.

James Price:

And of course, there are plenty of international buyers and that you will find that, that do that. but those, those people that are in that market generally are probably the easiest ones to get

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

And if you're buying into a Four Seasons property, generally you're gonna be using it quite, quite a bit of the time

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

Mm-hmm. So they're already in that market. It makes sense.

Adrian Strittmatter:

So obviously there's a huge amount of brand touch points which bring this quality. What would you say are the, the really the core defining pillars or elements behind the Four Seasons brand that really set you aside from what is a, hugely competitive market?

James Price:

I do believe that we pay probably closer attention to that initial design phase than most other brands. So we in a way, can be quite ball aching for the developers because we're gonna hold them to account on what, on what we want. and so we have our design standards and those are there for a reason. they, we want to make sure we're delivering best in class real estate, under our name. And so I think that that attention to detail at the outset is one thing. and then I think it comes back to the property management and the quality of the people that we're putting in place. And that long term experience that is promised when you buy with Four Seasons is absolutely fundamental to us. And if we lose that at any point, then that's when the brand is eroded, in the residential space at least. So I think that, getting those two things right and so. Um, we will be, as I say, like stock records when it comes to sort of working with developers saying These are the things, that we're focused on. the property management's the key thing. and, yeah, and, but as I said, it's, it's the layer cake of stuff. So it's a, it is a whole series of different things, but I would say that those are the two kind of, pillars for

Adrian Strittmatter:

pillars.

James Price:

we get the product right and we get the right people in there. Then the magic works.

Adrian Strittmatter:

In such a buoyant market, as we, as you've seen at the moment of branded residences, do you think there are any sort of myths that you'd like to bust or, false truths that are out there?

James Price:

Well, as I mentioned earlier, I think everybody's jumping to, percentage premiums that they're getting. And I know for sure looking around at a lot of projects, people are claiming premiums when they've just got asking prices, which have been put out to the market. They don't have any traction of sales. Mm-hmm. Or the sales are incredibly slow. So that's not, you can say you're asking prices here, but actually you're not achieving that through sales or you're achieving sales

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah.

James Price:

That's not where you are.

Adrian Strittmatter:

It's not a metric. Yeah.

James Price:

It's, it's, that becomes a bit of a falsehood, uh, and then I, I, again, I just, I think people are gonna start to be quite discerning about what the long-term ownership experience is for them. And

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm

James Price:

do think that, what brands bring to a project is, is different and that's fine and people will have, an affinity to certain brands. and that's all, right. And proper. But I think a lot of it is about, creating a sort of a, distinction in, in the

Adrian Strittmatter:

mm.

James Price:

Um, you know, long term maintenance and management of an asset. I don't understand how other, many other brands are, are getting into that space and how they're looking after that, because I just don't think they are. So, I

Adrian Strittmatter:

Maybe not even looking at it, or, it's not even on the radar. It's not even on the radar. Yeah. And, obviously, as we said, closing, kind of closing question, are you, you still feel that there's a lot of value to be generated? You're still very buoyant and excited about the future for four Seasons in this space? Hugely, yeah. Mm-hmm.

James Price:

I think, we, we see, as I say, both in the mixed use, sort of area plus, particularly in standalone, we, we think that we've just started to scratch the surface of that really. and we, in the standalone space, we see opportunity both in sort of city centers, and, and also, in larger kind of outta town communities. So again, depends what market you're in. you think about some of the European cities that we want to be in, where we've got hotels, but maybe we don't have a foot residential footprint yet. We want to be in those spaces a bit. Again, we've gotta be in the right locations and we've gotta

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yep.

James Price:

landmark buildings. There might be heritage buildings, which are being

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

finding the right scale of those is a bit of a challenge.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah.

James Price:

know, you're, you're tending to see smaller boutique, offerings and, and again, we can make that work. but there's great opportunity also with, larger developments say, a hundred and twenty five, two hundred units, community outta town, which. Inevitably have a different program of amenities. So they'll probably need to have more of an f and b offering.'cause you don't have that

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah.

James Price:

around you. So that changes the whole, strategy around how you make those communities work. Mm-hmm. but we see great opportunity there. And again, I think you look about different sort of regions that we're in. we have a huge amount going on in the Middle East, as I say, and I think that, that's great and we'll continue to develop through that market quite aggressively. I think in Asia Pacific there

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

of scope for us to push further. I think in a lot of the Asian markets sort, the developers are creating their own brands a little

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

you are almost competing to try to get into the space that they feel they want to get into already.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Homegrown. Yeah.

James Price:

you've got to make the, the proposition clear as

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

it is. And in those cases, you're probably saying as a brand, yes, we can deliver a broader international buyer base for you, because otherwise they can just go after the local market

Adrian Strittmatter:

And they can do it themselves. Yeah.

James Price:

so I think that, it takes a little bit more to unlock some of those opportunities,

Adrian Strittmatter:

And in good old Europe.

James Price:

yeah, for sure. again, I think that we have seen, very strong development pipeline

Adrian Strittmatter:

Yeah,

James Price:

with obviously hotel core and then residential dotted around. the challenges in the cities, as I've mentioned, it's finding sufficient

Adrian Strittmatter:

the right property.

James Price:

Often the hotels that we're opening through those European sort of cities are conversions of existing assets. We don't necessarily come with development

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

you know, it, it, it takes a little bit more to find those that will work, but we're very actively pursuing those. So again, as I mentioned, we've got a very clear strategic viewers to the markets that we want to be in. and, we're firmly focused on, on, getting into those. So I think huge opportunity and in the Americas still, again, I come back to that, people think that that is a. A market, which, well it is a market which got a lot of branded sort of profile to it already. But there's again, significant opportunity and I think that we feel, Adrian, it's not just about going and finding new locations that we're not already in, but we can have multiple properties in different key cities. Mm-hmm. If we feel that city has the scope for that, we're happy to

Adrian Strittmatter:

I can carry it. Yeah. Yeah. Also, that's hugely exciting. It's good to, you know, as we, as we all know, property

James Price:

a little bit longer.

Adrian Strittmatter:

a little bit longer, a little bit longer, definitely. And, and I think it's really good, to see that, there is an asset class that's thriving, but also that what you've mentioned, there's some core fundamentals around the brand, the operation of a property, which are, very much service led, very much human led, which are, still core to creating value and generating value for the long term.

James Price:

Absolutely. and I think that, we, we are, as I say, very excited by the next phase of growth. we as a business have set up residential as a kind of key growth area for us. We've invested further into the team. We have a new group, head of residential, Geico, Chris Meredith, who's based in Miami. Chris has come on board middle last

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

really taking it forward for us now. So I think we're, we're very energized by the whole thing, and we feel, we feel it's great. And look, the branded sector becoming, busier with many others, that's great. I mean, it's sort of, it shows that the proposition is out there and people understand it. But, I think that what we are gonna be focusing on is, is sticking to those key

Adrian Strittmatter:

values. Yeah.

James Price:

like. getting the right location, getting

Adrian Strittmatter:

Mm-hmm.

James Price:

getting a developer who sort of shares the vision and delivering that service and management. So if we keep doing those things right, I think we'll, we'll be well placed. I.

Adrian Strittmatter:

Perfect. Being meticulous pays then. Yeah, exactly. Excellent. Well, James, thanks ever so much for coming on the podcast. It's hugely insightful. I hope everyone will enjoy the episode as I did, so I really enjoyed chatting to. Thank you. Thanks, Andrew. Thanks, James. Cheers.