The formula for driving office value with Louise Ioannou

In this insightful episode of Bricks & More, Adrian Strittmatter is joined by Louise Ioannou — Head of Workspace at HB Reavis UK — to explore what truly makes a modern office irresistible in 2025 and beyond.

Drawing on her journey from branding to leasing, Louise shares how HB Reavis has reimagined office space as a holistic product: one shaped by hospitality, sustainability, flexibility, and community.

For Louise, the office is no longer just a place to work — it's a value-driven ecosystem designed to support business objectives, attract talent, and foster belonging.

Key talking points:

🏢 Why wellness, flexibility, and hospitality are now baseline expectations — not extras

📈 The commercial case for retention over churn in both traditional and flex leases

🌱 How sustainability and community engagement are redefining real estate value

🧩 Why cross-functional teams are key to delivering spaces people truly want

📊 Why “knowing your customer” is just as vital in commercial real estate as in consumer brands

If you're wondering what it really takes to create future-proof, in-demand office destinations — this episode has answers.

Louise’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louise-ioannou/

HB Reavis: https://hbreavis.com/uk/

Adrian’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianstrittmatter 

Saentys: https://saentys.com/ 

Transcript

Adrian Strittmatter: 0:53

Offices aren't just places to work. They're ecosystems that can inspire, connect, and drive success, but we're shifting tenant demands, evolving work habits, and the ever growing need for sustainability. How do you create, package, lease and sell a workspace that truly stands out and stands the test of time? We are diving into the future of workspaces with someone who truly understands what it takes to create offices that people want to be in. Louise Ioannou is the head of workspace for HB Reavis in the UK leading the charge in shaping son of London's most innovative office destinations. She has over 15 years experience that span, branding, marketing, placemaking, and more importantly, leasing. Helping to productize offices across traditional leases, manage spaces, and coworking. So I'm absolutely thrilled to welcome Louise to Bricks and more. Hi Louise. Lovely to have you on Bricks and More

Louise Ioannou: 1:56

Hi. Thank you for having me.

Adrian Strittmatter: 1:58

We've worked together quite a lot over the last couple of years, and I was wondering in terms of your journey from branding into leasing and workspaces, if you could tell us a little bit more about your journey within real estate and commercial real estate more specifically.

Louise Ioannou: 2:13

Yeah, so I've always had a client services background. Mm-hmm. After several years working in advertising, I moved into property marketing, where HB Reavis was my client. and I worked with them across their UK and European portfolio, and it was quite a natural progression that I then moved in-house to working with them. Mm-hmm. After a few years of heading up marketing and PR for the UK team, I worked really closely with specifically the leasing team, but also with Steven, our CEO, and had exposure to all of the teams internally. So it was a, it was quite a pivotal moment for me moving into leasing, but I felt that I'd had the kind of internal support to progress my role into the next step and move into leasing. And, yeah, ultimately that's moved me into the next phase of my career. And Steven has then entrusted me with, heading up all of our client facing activities across leasing. So traditional leasing and then also our flex workspace is including hubub.

Adrian Strittmatter: 3:11

I've got a kind of personal question'cause I've always been, always been agency side. Yeah. it's a slight off piece question with regards to the topic of the podcast, but what would you say the main differences are apart from the sort of, moving from agency to client side on I. The branding and sort of the marketing elements of agency life versus client side

Louise Ioannou: 3:31

Yeah, I probab, I think this is one of the topics I could probably talk all day about.

Adrian Strittmatter: 3:37

it was.

Louise Ioannou: 3:38

I think, in terms of. Challenges. I think I've, I think it's made me a better client and perhaps something that's taken a bit of time to realize and make sure I bring, bring that to the forefront is that I understand the challenges that agencies might have. Mm-hmm. I think it helps me write and you can disagree, but helps me write a better brief and to help understand how to communicate that.

Adrian Strittmatter: 4:03

Yeah.

Louise Ioannou: 4:03

and then also help to Could be that link between agency and then internally making sure we're communicating in, to our teams what's required and how to deliver a campaign. So I think it's a helpful bridge of having worked on both sides. Yeah. Of having worked on both sides. And then also, whether you're working with agents or marketing agency, There are similar challenges of, we are fully dedicated to our own project. So it is of, our work is obviously the most important to us, but other, when you're working with external agencies, obviously, you've got multiple clients to keep happy until prioritize even. Yeah. yeah, I think that that has been, that's probably one of the insights that's helpful to understand.

Adrian Strittmatter: 4:43

And I think you, in terms of you, you moving from the marketing and the branding side into the leasing side has obviously come at quite a pivotal moment for

Louise Ioannou: 4:54

Mm.

Adrian Strittmatter: 4:55

the office or the, the, the work led space environment. I. Quick question that we've asked all our guests on the podcast since the beginning 2025. After a couple of sort of tough years, and we'll come back to moving

Louise Ioannou: 5:08

Yeah.

Adrian Strittmatter: 5:08

and packaging offices a bit later. How, how are you and HB Reavis viewing 2025 in respect to the last two, three, maybe four years?

Louise Ioannou: 5:17

I think, well, I think there's still a huge amount of uncertainty, but if I just comment from just purely a leasing perspective, I think there's. Really just in where, coming to the end of Q1, the demand has been really strong, particularly on flex space. I think like the number of deals that we've delivered in Q1 versus same time last year, I think is much stronger. I think. Companies are really starting to value or increasingly continuing to value high quality workspaces. And if I think the last five years as a business, we've delivered over like 10 million square feet space and there's around 1% vacancy. So I think that's just proving the fact that we are on the right track of the type of product that we're delivering to the market and that that's what's in demand. and so I think, yeah, just proven the type of product that we're delivering. There's, there's occupied demand for, mm.

Adrian Strittmatter: 6:12

And that occupied demand. think there's obviously been over the last sort of three to four years, a lot of headlines, a lot of things that have fed into the perception of, what makes a good workspace, what makes a good office workspace, environment. what is for you a good work destination?

Louise Ioannou: 6:32

I think, we've focused on and we've, we were doing this pre pandemic and something that we've. continue to evolve our offering since, but the focus around wellness and the focus around customer experience and hospitality in the work environment, I think that has to be what kind of what you come to work for. Mm-hmm. you can choose to work when, when you can choose to work from anywhere. You want to make sure you're working from the best place. And I think if you are in an environment that you know you could achieve more with your day, whether that's'cause you've got access to a fitness studio, garden, terrace spaces, event spaces that, you know, programmed, events taking place because the building or kind of the, the workspace that you're in is hosting for you and supporting your company. I think they're really. And I'm sure we'll we'll chat through it more, but I think they are really important ingredients that we've really focused on. it was a commitment that we made. I think it was in. If I remember correctly, it was 2018 that we committed that all of our developments across Europe would be WELL gold or higher. And I think, that was, before, before the word COVID was talked about,

Adrian Strittmatter: 7:39

talks

Louise Ioannou: 7:39

and so yeah, delivering on that I think is very important that, we've focused on health and wellbeing of employees, from the, from the beginning. And it's, and it's encouraging as we said, that occupiers do value that.

Adrian Strittmatter: 7:52

There seems to be a, a kind of disconnect sometimes between what you hear in the market and the kind of reality of the market that you are talking about. Those metrics, that's 2025, those green shoots, that cautious optimism. There seems to be sometimes with the market noise, kind of concern to. Talk up the office by people who are not involved in offices. Why do you think that perception is still there or still lingering?

Louise Ioannou: 8:16

I think one of the misconceptions is around people shedding office space. Mm-hmm. Which, from what we see actually the last. Five years actually where we've given the options within our leases for occupiers to expand. All occupiers have taken up on that and have also shown that they're outgrowing the space that they've taken. So I think there is a mismatch and that might not be a for everybody, but I think the type of product that we are delivering, creating that flexibility, creating highly amenitized office space or office buildings, shows that, they are, well, they are well used and in demand. I think we also work with our occupies and whether I've, speaking to companies, whether that's a small. 10 person business through to much larger organizations. They're working with us of like how we can help them bring their employees, back into the office.

Adrian Strittmatter: 9:11

Okay.

Louise Ioannou: 9:12

Okay. and so I think what, what's being said isn't necessarily the reality of what happens day to day. And I think that's one of the unspoken truths is that actually companies do want their teams to be back together. and yeah, we're helping, we're helping them do that.

Adrian Strittmatter: 9:27

It's still, you're right, it's still a very tenuous or difficult argument to have in some

Louise Ioannou: 9:31

Yeah, because you want to show that you are flexible as a, as an employer and enabling your employee, how you enable your employees to work. But I would say most companies want their teams to be together in some way. Mm-hmm. And yeah, we're creating spaces to help them do that.

Adrian Strittmatter: 9:49

And a bit of a poison chalice question, if you don't mind.

Louise Ioannou: 9:52

Thank you.

Adrian Strittmatter: 9:53

do you

Louise Ioannou: 9:53

That's.

Adrian Strittmatter: 9:54

That's quite all right. Um, do you, think there's still value to be generated in the office sector from a developer investor, people who are bringing these office spaces to the market. Do you still think there's value to be generated there?

Louise Ioannou: 10:10

I think there is, it's increasingly difficult, obviously, because taking into account, development challenges that. That the industry is facing, which is why, you'll see that there is a constrained office supply. If you look at the next forecast, the next five years. I think it is difficult to bring new development forward for, for various reasons. But in terms of the right product, I think that's in demand and therefore. as we've said, if you're able to deliver buildings that are highly attractive because they are sustainable, they create flexibility for occupiers, they. They focus on wellness for employees, for occupiers, I think you will attract, you will attract occupiers into the development. And for that, yes you are. There is value to be generated. And I think also on the other side is, well, how do you look at value if you are an occupier? If we think now are built 10 to 15%. Of the building is now amenity. So the value that occupies also benefit from is greater than perhaps, say, developments that we may have delivered 10 years ago, for example.

Adrian Strittmatter: 11:21

And then specifically on that, on that notion of of value, how does HB Reavis calculate sort of the value. Assets. And what are the metrics that you would say, obviously some of them are clearly gonna be financial, but that would define success, and they're like, yeah, this has ticked these boxes, the financial one being the obvious one, but what are the other metrics that you guys would be looking at?

Louise Ioannou: 11:48

I think fundamentally we are still looking at, you know, traditional values such as length of lease, quality of the occupier. I. That, that will drive attractiveness of the asset to say a potential investor. but I think we're also looking at, well, what are the building's core fundamentals? So how sustainable is the building and how future-proofed is it against future sustainability credentials that may come in? So I think they are that, that, so that is a key metric. and then also how. Can you demonstrate that the building will be able to retain its occupiers? So what are the types of immunity that the building is delivering that, they're not gonna leave in five, 10 years time? So that's something. And how can you, how can you flex that space to be able to retain, retain your occupiers and remain engaged with them?

Adrian Strittmatter: 12:39

And sort of that journey with an occupier and sort of. Going to the beginning when they're going to consider signing a lease or an extension of a lease, but let's say a new lease in one of your new buildings. Have you seen a difference in the way that you now have to package that offer to make it more attractive to, to them? what are you, what have you changed maybe over the last couple of years in your

Louise Ioannou: 13:04

I think,

Adrian Strittmatter: 13:05

of the offer?

Louise Ioannou: 13:05

I think we, we've, the way our, the way our company and the way our teams are set up is quite unique. So we are, we have dedicated project teams and you are completely. Project product obsessed with that particular development. and from the outset, you start with your value proposition of what are you designing, who is it for? Who's the customer? So at that point in time, at the start of the product journey, everyone is, everyone is focused on what are you creating? Who is it for? When are you going to lease it? What are the timelines? And much as you'd be creating a product and kind of much, you'd be creating a product for any. Any consumer facing product. Mm-hmm. That's how we really treat our developments. And so yeah, the output may vary slightly, it might look slightly different because, let's take Worship Square for example. The type of amenity that we've included in Worship Square might be different to what we delivered at Bloom Clark Andwell a few years ago. But the approach and kind of the way we, the way we. Look at our product and how we market it from a consumer perspective is is quite consistent. We want to make sure that we know who our customer is, we know when we're trying to target them, and we'll do everything on that journey to make sure we reach our target occupier.

Adrian Strittmatter: 14:26

I think that's, I think that's super interesting.'cause I think a lot of the times when we are in conversations, especially on B2B sort of commercial real estate, there's a. Really strong understanding about the location, really strong understanding about the product. sometimes when you try and challenge or ask people about the end consumer, it's a little bit more. Flaky or less precise. How are you now, especially when you are talking to these companies, have you found a difference in who you are talking to and how you're talking to them and how you're defining who your potentially multiple audiences now are in B2B?

Louise Ioannou: 15:04

Yeah, I think, who we're talking to has evolved, so increasing. Yes, obviously you're talking to head of real estate, but increasingly the role of HR functions, you know, people functions are far more involved in the decision making process, but I think how we reach our, say, target. Target occupier is also slightly different, so we are making sure that we take a 360 approach through and obviously working with our marketing teams and agencies to, to target our occupiers, whether that's through online channels. online, offline channels and, it's not just, oh, we've developed a leasing brochure and we hand it over to agents and expect to lease our buildings. Like we're, and to anyone that's wor

Adrian Strittmatter: 15:51

Yeah.

Louise Ioannou: 15:51

and to anyone who's had the fortune to work with our team, we are incredibly hands-on at involved, and we're involved, we're really involved, every step in the process. Mm-hmm. but I, but then that's how we've been able to lease our buildings so that. We have no vacancy in our buildings. That's, that's, that's how we've been able to show that why it's an important approach is because we are incredibly hands-on. We know our customer, we know the product, we know what we need to deliver. And yeah, the way we market the product may have evolved over the last few years. And, and yes, the, the level of immunity or the level of flexibility has evolved, but our approach. an h BEUs approach is that we are incredibly product focused and that we, the leasing team does not work on its own. The leasing team works com in complete connection with design, development, construction, procurement, and everything about the project, project journey from the start to, to the finish.

Adrian Strittmatter: 16:52

And specifically on the. Productization of spaces and which then has a knock on effect probably to lease contracts. You've obviously got service, you've got coworking, you've got flexible, you've got traditional. Does that come into consideration as well as how a building can productize its

Louise Ioannou: 17:13

Yeah. And different and, and we, and again, that's all part of the initial value proposition and business planning phase is you will look at a scheme and we'll look at the amount of amenity we need to create. We'll look at the amount of flexibility that we'll offer, whether that's through, and we want to create kind of a blend of. Managed space co-work space. So there's that flexibility for occupiers to scale up and down as needed. so yeah, that, that, that, and that comes from having a really clear brief at the outset. And then the way the building is then marketed is then authentic because you've set out your product from, from the beginning.

Adrian Strittmatter: 17:50

We've talked about evolving trends, evolving people who will be involved in the decision to lease space, to take space or to stay in space. What would you say for you and HB Revu makes, an office irresistible in 2025?

Louise Ioannou: 18:04

I think the secret source being around how we can support occupiers in their own corporate objectives. So we're obviously concerned about our scope one emission, so the embodied carbon. But we also, being a responsible developer, we obviously want to make sure that the building is supporting occupiers in their. Their, their operational goals as well. So we want to make sure that we are supporting them and whether it's scope two and three missions, and we can support in their reporting. and ultimately how, how the building I. Operates to support them. Mm-hmm. does it enable them to have that flexibility on, what are the spaces that they need beyond their, their demise? So can we create event space? Can we create, scale, workspace for them to expand and contract within? So I think they're all ingredients that create that sticky, that stickiness. Yeah.

Adrian Strittmatter: 18:57

Yeah, you're right.'cause I think the operational goals, and we've seen it sometimes when we've had to pitch buildings, depending on who's in the room, who is going to be the decision driver, is it going to be, as you said, like a, a, a sustainability play or a location play, or an occupational play, or even sometimes a brand play with people where. Your destination, your office space becomes a way of responding to those challenges that they have. in terms of, I would say beyond occupancy rates, and really when you've got an active building, how do you measure success or value in that sense? So you've got your building, it's occupied mean, do you go, do you go and visit your, your buildings that you've created afterwards or.

Louise Ioannou: 19:41

I think beyond occupancy, we have to talk about retention. Mm-hmm. That is really an important way of, demonstrating building success. And that's retention when we talk about on a traditional lease. But also if we think about, if I have my, my hub hub hat on and we think about flex workspace as well, so I think. That is, that's really important. And that's, and it's for that reason that you want to deliver all of the immunity space and all of the, space for an occupier to expand contract within. Because what are, what are the reasons for them to stay? You want to make it, you don't want them to leave. So how can you support their business longer term? Yes. Do I? Yes. I have perched myself very firmly in the lobby of Worship Square, particularly for the last few months as we've welcomed our new occupiers into the building, and it's just so nice just to see Yeah, people coming into the building using it. As you expected, if there's any challenges, you're, you, you are there, you can help. See if there's anything that needs to be, resolved. But actually just seeing people enjoy the space, especially when, we've, we've, I've talked about it quite a lot recently, but, we acquired the building a month before the first lockdown. the team was assembled during the pandemic and the building was delivered during the pandemic. And so now to see people together enjoying the space that. That's really nice. Obviously, we'll, we'll carry out occupier surveys and engagement surveys to make sure that, peop our occupies are enjoying it. But, that's the nice bit of just being able to sit and observe and just see that actually yes, the building is being used and en and enjoyed.

Adrian Strittmatter: 21:16

Do you think maybe that in terms of this new. Some, I'm gonna say it's a new focus. Yeah. This new focus on, on retention been to some degree motivated by flexible leases and contracts coming into the market because I think, from a. From a, from a sort of landlord perspective, if someone signs up for a 10 to 15 year lease, really force you, you know, it's kind of see you in 10 years kind of thing. Do you think there's more flexibility in the leases, more ity in products, which means that that retention idea is, is more prevalent now? Or is it something that you guys have

Louise Ioannou: 21:54

I think it's still two thing. I think, if we focus on. Flex spaces. Mm-hmm. It might not be the most popular answer. Mm-hmm. But the, the short to your term, every ti, every time there's churn and you've got a new member coming in, you're paying a broker fee.

Adrian Strittmatter: 22:15

Yeah, yeah.

Louise Ioannou: 22:16

from a business plan perspective, retention is completely crucial. Mm-hmm. Yeah. apologies to anybody,

Adrian Strittmatter: 22:22

No, no. But a returning customer is, yeah.

Louise Ioannou: 22:24

but you know, ultimately that, that that's the fundamental reason why you need to ensure you have got member retention. and so of course you're going to do everything possible to make sure your members are happy and satisfied, because if, if they are, then they're gonna stay with you and also you are creating a more enjoyable or more Productive working environment for them to be in. And so it, it helps both sides that, that you focus on retention and we've got teams dedicated to programming, community events, event space, member experience teams, just to make sure that everyone is fo everyone is focused operationally on supporting our members. And then you mentioned on the longer term leases, so you know, we. The same way. We are very hands-on during product development phase that has to stay in place for when we are managing our assets and anyway, and the way we manage our assets, is as equally hands-on as possible during the lifecycle of our building. But, and also the, it, it may, it varies market to market in terms of the number of. Assets we have under our active management at any one time. so yeah, it's market specific, but. It's something that we look to, to look after in house. Mm-hmm. Wherever we can because the operational side. The operational side, yeah. So we've got, we've got huge, asset management teams looking after all of our buildings across Europe. and, and yeah. That, that is, yeah, that doesn't drop off. Just we've been super product obsessed during development. That doesn't finish when we've then signed a lease and we, we'll, we are not ones to then say, okay, thanks. See you in 10 years time.

Adrian Strittmatter: 24:11

I think that's, that's definitely a shift that we've seen from landlord owner, asset manager, moving into more of an active role and now becoming to some degree owner operators as well. And it's a. And op successfully operating a building. That's why you have third parties that often do it, like internally is, is quite a difficult ask. in terms of a specific sort of, project that we, that you've mentioned, and I know that we're very close to it, here, what would you say have been the success factors behind one of those developments that you're going to talk about in that case? Study in, in person.

Louise Ioannou: 24:48

I can't not talk about Worship Square. in terms of exceptional sustainability credentials, both from an embodied carbon perspective, so during construction and the way the building's been designed to operate, I think in terms of creating a future-proofed assets. Mm-hmm. that for us is a project that we're all exceptionally proud of. but also, it's 140,000 square foot building yet. It has, two, two larger organizations occupying the traditional office space. Mm-hmm. But we also have a managed workspace offering, and we also have around 17,000 square feet of Hub Hub, which is delivering the affordable workspace that we are, we've committed to deliver for Hackney. and that is range of private office space, cowork spaces, as well as an events auditorium. Then also, around 9,000 square feet of, terra space between communal, private, private outdoor areas, and then a fitness studio. So I think we're just trying to cater for, within the building, whether you are a, a freelancer, one small business or you know, as wise, I know, over 80,000 square foot occupier the building can occupy, can accommodate, sorry, can the building can accommodate any size business and. I think again, as in response to perhaps some of the challenges as a kind of outcome of the pandemic, the building is really trying to bring people together, whether that's through the event space,

Adrian Strittmatter: 26:22

Mm.

Louise Ioannou: 26:22

through having this active lobby area for, trying to welcome business of any size and bring people together. I think that's something that's really important to the fundamentals of the building.

Adrian Strittmatter: 26:34

Of creating a, a sort of, as, as you mentioned, maybe we can go into a bit more detail, a kind of work-based community. So you

Louise Ioannou: 26:41

Yeah,

Adrian Strittmatter: 26:41

allowing people to create that, allowing occupiers to create that for their, for their employees and for their staff.

Louise Ioannou: 26:47

exactly.

Adrian Strittmatter: 26:48

In terms of, future proofing of a building and, and if we continue on Worship Square, but it's clearly successful now. Clearly successful, for the coming years because obviously you've got longer lease terms but how do you future proof, how do you look at the project or the products now and post delivery project yourself for the next five to 10 years? Are there any things that is coming up, which you go, okay, we're gonna have to think about that for this building to make sure it stays at the top of its game.

Louise Ioannou: 27:16

I think again, just bringing it back to the, fundamental value proposition of the scheme. we've focused on sustainability that is, that's a huge. That's, that's a huge lever, let's say, for the building's attractiveness going forward, I think working with occupiers to ensure that the building operates as intended. we are targeting neighbors, rating for Worship Square and once the building is occupied and has been commissioned over the, the, next 12 months. That will be interesting to see how the building then delivers on its targets and being focused on. Focused on its operational efficiency and any, any learnings from that. I think the other point around the flexibility, we are delivering through Hubub, delivering the affordable workspace for Hackney. And I think making sure that we are engaged with and partnered with local community and how we continue to program that space, I think is, will be quite interesting to look at. yeah, I think they're, they're the bits we're focusing around the community piece, which is something that I feel incredibly passionate around. And then sustainability, which will become, not a, just a nice to have. It's essential in, in order to be able to deliver a future-proofed asset.

Adrian Strittmatter: 28:34

And in that, again, going back to to the topic you mentioned, the community focused aspect of creating real destinations that obviously work for their tenants, but also work for the broader community. How have you seen that sort of becoming more prevalent in sort of office destinations?

Louise Ioannou: 28:55

So for me, the last 12 months, nine, 12 months have been really focused on a piece of research that we've just recently undertaken with Future Places studio, and I. I'm completely passionate around the role of community in the workplace. I think we're, as a society facing a loneliness epidemic. Mm-hmm. And if you think of the future of work, how can you know everyone? I, I think it's, I. Nonsense. To continue trying to solve future of work by discussing number of days you should be working from the office. I think that is completely the wrong angle. Mm-hmm. And actually, we should be looking at how we can solve for bigger picture societal challenges through the workplace. Mm-hmm. And you know, in a time where you can work from anywhere, why are people still so lonely and why as a society, are people suffering with so many mental health challenges and therefore taking that into account, how can we, how can we solve for that through the places that we create? Mm-hmm. and that for me is why I think community as a. Lever is only going to rise in importance and therefore if a way of solving that is bringing people together? Because we know that when people are together, they feel engaged, they have a greater sense of belonging, engagement, they will then. In turn feel, feel a sense of loyalty to the company that they work for and are then feeling more content and more productive. And that might seem really ideological kind of thought process. But you know, we, I'm, I'm happy that we've. Produce this bit of research that supports that. And I, I'm not saying that we've solved for it, I'm just saying that it, we've

Adrian Strittmatter: 30:42

it

Louise Ioannou: 30:42

you're addressing, we're addressing it. Yeah. I feel like we're addressing it and we're opening the conversation and there's some learnings to be had and some, I'm sure we'll learn more along the way, but I think if, if they are challenges that we try to solve for, in. The workplace design, then that's how we, push forward with the future of work. future of work isn't a destination. It's constantly evolving and there'll be changing challenges along the way, but for me at the moment, I feel like that's a really important one that we should be addressing. How are we being responsible developers in the spaces that we create for occupiers, and how are we supporting the people that come into our buildings?

Adrian Strittmatter: 31:20

And you obviously HV Rivers is active in different markets. And you are specifically also responsible for the UK one, but have a view on what's happening in the

Louise Ioannou: 31:27

Yeah.

Adrian Strittmatter: 31:28

Do you see there's, there's a difference with regards to the kind of elements or the challenges that we have or that you have in London versus some of the challenges they have on, let's say, mainland Europe in different

Louise Ioannou: 31:40

I think, I think it's markets, I think it's market specific, but I think what's ingrained in everyone within the company is the approach to wellbeing. Mm-hmm. I think and, and also the space, the space in between the office. I think. If you look at all of the buildings we've delivered in varying degrees, in varying ways, we've, we've all, as a collective, as a business, have delivered spaces that focus on access to nature, green spaces, fitness spaces. I think that, the focus on physical and mental wellbeing has been a common thread across all of our schemes. and yet the output might look slightly different between buildings, but I think the. Yeah. I think that's been a, a, an important focus.

Adrian Strittmatter: 32:25

And in terms of the operational side of the building or the amenity side of the building, obviously. you said, you've got a very hands-on approach. Mm-hmm. But obviously you can't do everything. Are there any like really good partnerships that you've set up in some of your buildings with operators who've really understood where you were going with this building and being able to partner with you to deliver your vision?

Louise Ioannou: 32:47

there's one that we're working on at the moment for the uk, a small offering within Hubub, which watch this space because it should be launching soon. but in terms of. Partnerships we obviously work with, we, we don't do everything on our own. Of course, we have a curated team for each project that we work with, and that will always be, whoever's most relevant for that particular project. I think it was 2022, we launched a partnership with the Southbank Centre Mm-hmm. Where, we wanted to demonstrate our commitment to the local area, to the community. Linking that, but also trying to create kind of a workspace. kind of relevance to it. And so we founded a program with the Southbank Centre called Culture Works, which I guess was probably the, the sort of seedlings and start of the idea of around the importance of community and access to culture and wellbeing, the wellbeing benefits that come that come out of that. But yeah, we have a partnership with the Southbank Centre, which means we are able to give all of our occupiers and our Hub Hub members free access to. Tickets to curated events, bespoke events for, for those members. And yeah, our partnership then means that they get corporate level access to the Southbank Centre. And, and yeah, that's not something that we could create on our own and it's partnerships like that, that we look to, to create. but yeah, that's one that, it's an important area for us of the, as a business. partnerships like that I think is important that we, that we to continue to offer.

Adrian Strittmatter: 34:21

If you were to sort of, you know, again, project yourself into the future and you were given sort of bla to create the best kind of office destination in the future that really created value for all its stakeholders and all the people that we were going to engage with it, would that look like? What would it be?

Louise Ioannou: 34:39

I'm glad I used the Southbank Centre as my preamble to my next answer. My yeah. I know I'm completely biased, but that's fine. The redevelopment of Elizabeth House and creating one Waterloo to me is the ideal workplace destination. it's directly next door to Waterloo Station. one of the busiest stations in London, you are overlooking the Thames, iconic London skyline with. Designed a scheme that would create a huge amount of public realm interfacing with the workplace, interfacing with, hundred thousand square feet of Pedestrianized retail street. you'd be smack bang next to Waterloo Station with access to three acres of outdoor space and. You have access to genuinely heart and soul. Mm-hmm. Being on the kind of doorstep of the South Bank, cultural hub, and I think it's got all the ingredients to be an ideal workplace destination.

Adrian Strittmatter: 35:46

In terms of, for you now, what will really in your new role shape the future of office leasing? I. And workplace destination leasing and activation, what would you say it's, it's going to be, what are the

Louise Ioannou: 36:03

I think, I think something that served me well is that I've always had a client services background. Mm-hmm. And I think that plus also the marketing, marketing background and understanding how to deliver messaging and deliver Product marketing, I think the customer focus has to be essential. You need to understand who your target occupier is and be able to translate, the building that you are creating and how that has a value to them. making sure that. You are able to translate the technical side of the building and making sure that it, it feels tangible and real to them of how it will improve and enhance their way of working. does that answer it?

Adrian Strittmatter: 36:48

Yeah, it does. one, one sort of final question really from me is, is have you ever sort of, when you do go and people watch in the developments that you guys have delivered, have you sometimes. people using, and it happens with technology sometimes seeing people using the space in a way that you potentially hadn't planned or in some sort of, surprising way where you go like, oh, okay, that's interesting. We hadn't thought of it in that way.

Louise Ioannou: 37:15

so in terms of how the space is being used, I think when we delivered Hubub at 20 Faringdon Street, that was, they are serviced office spaces. The majority of the offices there, all have access to the shared amenity, shared meeting rooms, for instance, whereas. We've actually evolved our offering of Hubub at Worship Square. So now actually the demand has been far greater for having self-contained spaces where we've delivered. Broadly, each, each office suite has actually got its own meeting rooms, its own dedicated kitchens, because increasing, I think companies want private spaces where they that they operate, but then they also want to be connected to something greater as well. So they get the best of both worlds where they have their own private, self-contained office units. Then they also can plug into the wider community programming. They don't have to worry about it. Yeah. So I, so I think that's been an interesting pivot in terms of hub hub's next offer and iteration within Hub Hub's lifecycle.

Adrian Strittmatter: 38:17

No, that's super interesting. So they deal, they, they're happy to manage their own things, but they're happy to come to the communal kitchen, the

Louise Ioannou: 38:23

Yeah, I think they, they want to have, yeah, they want, they want to have their own meeting rooms without having to necessarily share that with other companies. Mm-hmm. But then you also want the best of both worlds where you want access to the event space you want. Programmed curated events that their teams can come to because, not all companies have an in-house, team that can look after, look after curating that employee experience. So it is you are able to lean on the hub, hub team for that, whereas the, but they're still being able to operate their company in a more private way, in a more private.

Adrian Strittmatter: 38:57

space.

Louise Ioannou: 38:58

I'd say one, um. One slight unexpected outcome of the technology that we deployed into our spaces. So at Bloom we delivered a ready to work managed workspace. Mm-hmm. You know, and we communicated and we delivered that we'd be able to manage and report on utilization rates, occupancy, as well as the indoor environmental credentials of the space. and. We could quite quickly see that an occupier was going to outgrow their space, which they did, and they've subsequently moved on. But that was okay. Well we've transparently reported on the data on how it was being used. And I think then you have to think about, okay, well how can we accommodate their growing business within the space? And actually the data's telling you that they're quickly gonna outgrow it and probably. If you haven't got space to accommodate them within the building, well, yeah. Where, where are they going? Yeah. So I think that was an unexpected outcome of the data. But you know, it was there and we were obviously reporting on it transparently to them and finding ways to help keep them for as long as possible. Yeah.

Adrian Strittmatter: 40:12

as possible. We were talking at the beginning of 2025 there being cautious optimism, green shoots everything that we've discussed and the future proofing and the occupiers and the quality of the office and the community inclusion. Do you think it's safe to say that we'll be moving from green shoots to green pastures in the future, or is that too crazy?

Louise Ioannou: 40:35

I think, I think we've, approached with some cautious optimism, if Q one's anything to go by. I think demand has certainly increased, for workspace, for high quality spaces that we are delivering. and I think if we can continue to. Ensure that we're tackling challenge. I think, as we mentioned around community, that just feels like an open door of something that we can continue to, to tackle and demonstrate the benefit of. And, that I think can bring real business value in bringing people to together and demonstrating how. That can support engagement and performance. And that's, that's an important theme that we should be continuing to deliver on. So the social aspect of developments, should continue to be at the forefront. Perfect. Well, hi Louis. Well not Hi, Louise. Jesus.

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:26

we're starting again.

Louise Ioannou: 41:27

And off we go.

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:29

So Louis, thanks ever so much for coming on the podcast. It's been a really insightful, insightful journey. I hope you enjoyed it

Louise Ioannou: 41:35

That's it. Thank you.

Adrian Strittmatter: 41:36

you.